So you only proved my point. Several of them actually. Especially the ignorance part.

So here are your "arguments"

Name one nation: France. France beat the US to condemning Iranian oppression. The gates of hell are now opening.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't: In my eyes? What do my eyes matter? BHO didn't even take a stance, and Ahmadinejad was already condemning our interference. Ahmadinejad was accusing us of interfering because pleas leaving the country via. www were in English, protest signs and chants in his streets were in English. There was an opportunity to reach the only people in that country whose minds are open to something different and better, and Barack missed that boat. Silence exists only because BHO's bets are on Ahmed. and he wishes to open up diplomatic relations to an oppressive religious dictatorship that kills its own people.

Now... I don't know about you, but when people of another nation reach out for our support in democratic demonstrations against their governments, and we either say we don't recognize it (Honduras) or we turn our backs on them (Iran), we're going against every piece of documentation that brought any and all of us freedom. We miss opportunities to promote what makes America great. But worst of all, we're showing enormous fissures and weaknesses in our example to the world.

Honduras and Iran are missed opportunities.

So I've given you my answers. Since you've got BHO's balls while NBC's giving him his nighttime handy, now riddle me this? What the fuck is so great about America ignoring people reaching out to us? What's so great about selling our children into socialized slavery with the national debt. What's so great about socialized healthcare? I mean... it's too expensive, so let's spend $2,000,000,000,000 more on it. What's so great about cap & trade? What's so great about government owned manufacturers?

but most of all...

what's good about BHO's response to Honduras?

 

You know what happens when we try and spread our version of democracy to other nations? Vietnam.

My whole point was there are bigger issues, ones in which the US is best left out. Missed opportunities? Why is that our responsibility? As you so aptly mentioned, our country is drowning in national debt. Why are we looking for opportunites to spread our version of democracy when we aren't even doing a good job of maintaining it on the home front? Interventionism should not be on our priority list, especially after operation Iraqi freedom and invading under the false pretenses.

The response of the Honduras issue is based on the economic disparity going on in the country. Hugo Chavez completely cut off supplies to Honduras, a country which is already dirt poor and will likely suffer gravely without some form of economic stability. The plan isn't to allow for a socialist regime to remain in place, but to ensure a "coup" isn't occuring, which would only further degrade the country's economic instability. From the US standpoint, what has happened violates the law. I have no input into that, however finding the most diplomatic way to ensure a swift and peaceful change of power is necessary to maintain stability. On top of that, the US isn't planning on creating trade sanctions, so its not like we've done anything drastic other than send a foreign diplomat to discuss the issue.

 

I agree with RB on the issue of spreading democracy as our country is in steady decline.

I also kind of agree with Jaf about missed opportunity to stand up for democracy at least vocally.

 

I mean, it's a tough issue. I agree that we need to support a fully democratic system, but at the same time, especially in the case of Iran, there are so many complicated issues with supporting a demoractic movement in Iran (and to a greater extent the entire middle east) that in a situation like this, interventionism is inprudent. In the case of Honduras, I think it is a little more simple, but regime changes are always tricky, regardless of the region.

It seems like Micheletti is being diplomatic, it is my hope that he reaches out to the US for discussion on what can be done to stabilize his country amicably.

 

Micheletti is being democratic. The people protesting his [Zelaya's] ousting are a tiny majority. I asked Albert if everything was okay on the ranch, and he said this happening was the only means of anything ever getting any better. He also said the US has become less popular in Honduras lately, and the people of Honduras know better than Barack what's good for them. Albert has dual citizenship and served in Desert Storm, so maybe you'd think his opinion is still biased despite the fact that he lives in a 3rd world country? I'm just grateful he did it.

As far as Iran is concerned... an uprising that overthrows those insane Mullah's would be the best thing we could ever hope for.

Forgive my sensitivity on the democracy, but having been there and having friends there definitely made me take sides. I agree with all of you that we have more issues to focus on at home with this economy. "I inherited an economy that lost 2 million jobs over the year before I took office". Yes, but according to the department of labor, there are now 18,000,000 people out of work, that's 16M more people than Bush is being blamed for in that statement last week, and the "stimulus" still isn't working. Creating jobs means putting a dent in the 500,000 people a month that are losing their jobs. That hasn't changed. Half the entrepreneurs in my family and friends' families are closing up shop. The stimulus was a bullshit coverup for a special interest spending bill. There has been no transparency. Cap & trade in a country that derives 80% of its power from coal is going to hit every last MF in the pocketbook that's already struggling to get air in a sea of foreclosures and bankruptcies. You don't save money and balance a budget by tripling the payrolls of bureaucrats. You can't spend your way out of debt. When I max out my credit card, my card issuer does not raise my credit limit and ask me to spend more. They cut me off. BHO, Pelosi and Reid don't understand this. These policies aren't just not working, but they're the nails in the coffin of capitalism (which made America what it was up until last year). Where foreign policy is concerned, stating whose side you're on doesn't mean we're mobilizing troops or imposing sanctions on anyone. It also doesn't cost anything from our budgets. It says, "this is who we are, this is what we believe in, and this is why we're the greatest nation in the world." Past that, it's our responsibility to prove it to every other nation and come out of it on top. Taxing and penalizing citizens is not the way out and I do get angry when people blindly follow and support this wolf in sheep's clothing.

Call me a raving right wing lunatic all you want, if common sense about financial matters and foreign policy makes me that, get the straight jacket and rubber room ready because I don't want to live any other way. Long live freedom.

 

You may want to brush up on your history. The US has openly and generously supported plenty of dictators in the distant and not-so-distant past. National interests trump ideology, period.

There are revolutions, reforms and coups practically on a daily basis around the world, and the US doesn't have a damn thing to say about the vast majority of them.

The reason Obammy didn't step up pressure during the Iranian elections is because he doesn't want to be perceived as meddling in their internal affairs. As many questionable things as he may have done up to this point, I wholeheartedly agree with his caution in dealing with that.

 

Strong aware.

Yes. I see that to. And he's exercising caution to gain what exactly?

 

We're not exactly popular in the Arab world, and most people in the middle east (rightly) see us as intervening in their domestic affairs, fucking shit up, and leaving. We have a vested national interest in diminishing this perception because the more pissed those countries are at us, the more likely they are to fund terrorists, mess with our oil prices, and do what they can to support insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan. Perfect example being Saudi Arabia... they have A LOT of money and resources. For the moment they are happy enough with us to let us set up bases on their land. Perceptions could easily change to the point where they would not only boot us out of their county, but use their vast resources to fund Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Quaida, etc, etc. The point is to not come across as though we're patronizing and beating our cocks over their heads.

 

lol RB is canadian

 

lol. cut me some slack man. I was on a new MacBook Pro when this started, and the fokkin' thing has a 1080p HD resolution in a 17" display. I need flippin' binoculars to read that thing. That R was an N, I swear.