H22 rebuild troubles - PICS inside
07-17-2003, 04:04 AM
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H22 rebuild troubles - PICS inside
Look what happened to my friend with his 4G Prelude VTEC, 1994, all happened in Europe.
His oil consumption was about 1L/1000km (1quart/600miles) so he wanted to make a rebuild at his friend's shop. OK, he bought all the parts as rings and valve seals, all from Honda for big money and bringed all the stuff to the mechanic. The man did the rebuilt, but when my frined first started, the lude really smoked with white color. The mechanic said it is ok, you have to drive with it and it will be ok. What happened next - the oil consumption was unbelievable 1L per 20-50km (1q/15-35miles)! All this followed with huge white smoke. My friend said OK, I will believe you and I'll try it. He has driven about 3000km (2000miles), the white smoke was still there and the oil consumption has "improved" to 1L/50km.
That was really unbelievable. The mechanic said that he has done everything perfectly and that "it is ok". My friend couldn't get the money or anything back. The ride with his lude was not fun anymore. My friend was really heart-broken and didn't know what to do. He couldn't simply sell the lude with smoking like this. Everyone told him that there must be something wrong and that it is not ok. My friend hoped that he didn't buy bad rings, but was not sure.
So one day, he estimated that we will try to open the engine and check what is wrong. We hoped that the rings were badly put on or put in reverse, because the oil consumption was really big. We opened the engine (head off) and WTF, all seemed to be ok. The rings were put perfectly. This was really bad news for us - we all hoped it will be the rings. The plugs were all covered by oil:
Anyway, we tried to remove the rings form the pistons and when looked in detail, the ring that seats between the two oil rings was cut!!! We had some old rings to compare, look at these pics:
What the f*ck could that mechanic be? These rings were cut on all the pistons. I remember when we were rebuilding our last H22, the rings went to the cylinder really bad and we also thought that we bought some bad "too big" rings. While we got them in, the mechanic didn't and simply cut them! It's sure that the high oil burning was because of this.
However this was not the last surprise that day. When we looked into the cylinder, there was some deep scratch in, the same was on the piston and bearing:
Was that mechanic mad? It looked like he made the rebuild in some sand or stone pit. So we bought one new piston and all new bearings. We had only to rehone the cylinder, because there was not enough money to do anything else (my friend had to pay two rebuilds).
Yes, the scratch is still there, but not so deep and sharp.
We are going to finish this rebuild tommorow. I will report our result to you.
His oil consumption was about 1L/1000km (1quart/600miles) so he wanted to make a rebuild at his friend's shop. OK, he bought all the parts as rings and valve seals, all from Honda for big money and bringed all the stuff to the mechanic. The man did the rebuilt, but when my frined first started, the lude really smoked with white color. The mechanic said it is ok, you have to drive with it and it will be ok. What happened next - the oil consumption was unbelievable 1L per 20-50km (1q/15-35miles)! All this followed with huge white smoke. My friend said OK, I will believe you and I'll try it. He has driven about 3000km (2000miles), the white smoke was still there and the oil consumption has "improved" to 1L/50km.
That was really unbelievable. The mechanic said that he has done everything perfectly and that "it is ok". My friend couldn't get the money or anything back. The ride with his lude was not fun anymore. My friend was really heart-broken and didn't know what to do. He couldn't simply sell the lude with smoking like this. Everyone told him that there must be something wrong and that it is not ok. My friend hoped that he didn't buy bad rings, but was not sure.
So one day, he estimated that we will try to open the engine and check what is wrong. We hoped that the rings were badly put on or put in reverse, because the oil consumption was really big. We opened the engine (head off) and WTF, all seemed to be ok. The rings were put perfectly. This was really bad news for us - we all hoped it will be the rings. The plugs were all covered by oil:
Anyway, we tried to remove the rings form the pistons and when looked in detail, the ring that seats between the two oil rings was cut!!! We had some old rings to compare, look at these pics:
What the f*ck could that mechanic be? These rings were cut on all the pistons. I remember when we were rebuilding our last H22, the rings went to the cylinder really bad and we also thought that we bought some bad "too big" rings. While we got them in, the mechanic didn't and simply cut them! It's sure that the high oil burning was because of this.
However this was not the last surprise that day. When we looked into the cylinder, there was some deep scratch in, the same was on the piston and bearing:
Was that mechanic mad? It looked like he made the rebuild in some sand or stone pit. So we bought one new piston and all new bearings. We had only to rehone the cylinder, because there was not enough money to do anything else (my friend had to pay two rebuilds).
Yes, the scratch is still there, but not so deep and sharp.
We are going to finish this rebuild tommorow. I will report our result to you.
07-18-2003, 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by machinehead
oh man, that totally sux. isnt there some way you can get a refund???
oh man, that totally sux. isnt there some way you can get a refund???
07-19-2003, 04:48 AM
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uh, it looks like you used the wrong hone for the job, considering the deep horizontal scoring now on the cylinder walls in your "after" pic. it also looks like you honed at nearly a 30 degree crosshatch.
GC-600-J or finer honing stone for non-ferrous metals is supposed to be used with a 60 degree crosshatch at 45-50 rpm. FRM is much softer than iron sleeving, and use of a standard stone setup will destroy the cylinder walls. the honing device is available from Snap-On.
hopefully the photos just arent doing your work any justice, and that the blur of the hone in motion LOOKS faster than 45-50rpm.
GC-600-J or finer honing stone for non-ferrous metals is supposed to be used with a 60 degree crosshatch at 45-50 rpm. FRM is much softer than iron sleeving, and use of a standard stone setup will destroy the cylinder walls. the honing device is available from Snap-On.
hopefully the photos just arent doing your work any justice, and that the blur of the hone in motion LOOKS faster than 45-50rpm.
07-19-2003, 05:49 AM
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Originally posted by drift
uh, it looks like you used the wrong hone for the job, considering the deep horizontal scoring now on the cylinder walls in your "after" pic. it also looks like you honed at nearly a 30 degree crosshatch.
GC-600-J or finer honing stone for non-ferrous metals is supposed to be used with a 60 degree crosshatch at 45-50 rpm. FRM is much softer than iron sleeving, and use of a standard stone setup will destroy the cylinder walls. the honing device is available from Snap-On.
hopefully the photos just arent doing your work any justice, and that the blur of the hone in motion LOOKS faster than 45-50rpm.
uh, it looks like you used the wrong hone for the job, considering the deep horizontal scoring now on the cylinder walls in your "after" pic. it also looks like you honed at nearly a 30 degree crosshatch.
GC-600-J or finer honing stone for non-ferrous metals is supposed to be used with a 60 degree crosshatch at 45-50 rpm. FRM is much softer than iron sleeving, and use of a standard stone setup will destroy the cylinder walls. the honing device is available from Snap-On.
hopefully the photos just arent doing your work any justice, and that the blur of the hone in motion LOOKS faster than 45-50rpm.
My friend also didn't have any more money to do anything else.
07-19-2003, 08:29 PM
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Don't mean to bust any bubbles, and though I don't know to much about honda's. But every car I have ever worked on, the piston rings have to have an opening to put them on and take them off, and to fit them to that piston. And they don't cause a problem. The only thing that would cause a problem is if those openings are lined up, they all have to be set so that they are seperated from each other, otherwise oil can get through when it's not supposed to. You might want to hit the books before causing making a big seen, because if I'm right it can make you look bad.
07-20-2003, 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by killashandrea
Don't mean to bust any bubbles, and though I don't know to much about honda's. But every car I have ever worked on, the piston rings have to have an opening to put them on and take them off, and to fit them to that piston. And they don't cause a problem. The only thing that would cause a problem is if those openings are lined up, they all have to be set so that they are seperated from each other, otherwise oil can get through when it's not supposed to. You might want to hit the books before causing making a big seen, because if I'm right it can make you look bad.
Don't mean to bust any bubbles, and though I don't know to much about honda's. But every car I have ever worked on, the piston rings have to have an opening to put them on and take them off, and to fit them to that piston. And they don't cause a problem. The only thing that would cause a problem is if those openings are lined up, they all have to be set so that they are seperated from each other, otherwise oil can get through when it's not supposed to. You might want to hit the books before causing making a big seen, because if I'm right it can make you look bad.
GOD DAMN...WELL SAID
Geez I love this girl, Who ever got her is lucky:thumbup:
07-22-2003, 08:09 AM
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Originally posted by killashandrea
Don't mean to bust any bubbles, and though I don't know to much about honda's. But every car I have ever worked on, the piston rings have to have an opening to put them on and take them off, and to fit them to that piston. And they don't cause a problem. The only thing that would cause a problem is if those openings are lined up, they all have to be set so that they are seperated from each other, otherwise oil can get through when it's not supposed to. You might want to hit the books before causing making a big seen, because if I'm right it can make you look bad.
Don't mean to bust any bubbles, and though I don't know to much about honda's. But every car I have ever worked on, the piston rings have to have an opening to put them on and take them off, and to fit them to that piston. And they don't cause a problem. The only thing that would cause a problem is if those openings are lined up, they all have to be set so that they are seperated from each other, otherwise oil can get through when it's not supposed to. You might want to hit the books before causing making a big seen, because if I'm right it can make you look bad.
with the pics of the oil rings being severed, it's pretty obvious where the problem lies... a severed oil ring will not provide the ability to scavenge oil from the cylinder walls.
only the piston rings are split to fit... the oil rings are sprung like an expandable bracelet.
