I have been off for a few days and had to laugh when reading the last few days posts about a few topics that are now locked up.

Anyhoo, just had a customer's head come back with a bunch of bent valves. It seems that while engaged in a demonstration of speed, he downshifted into the wrong gear (#2 instead of #4 at 135mph is what was claimed) and ran into problems. This was a B18C. My question is sort of related in that I was wondering what you know of the physical rpm limits of the b series engines with stock internals? I have built B's and D's before for some showroom stock racers and street strip guys and built a bunch more heads for them but I'm starting on a B18A for myself for drag only use and I'm looking for info on the limits of the stock bottom end internals - naturally aspirated. I'm used to American iron which can't take that much abuse.

No I won't be grinding my own cam....

 

The bottom end in the B18A is pretty weak compared to some of the beefier bottom ends. I'd upgrade to forged Rods, Pistons, and to a Z10 eng crank girdle if you want to make serious RPM, but building a non-vtec motor wouldn't be your best plan. I'd upgrade a GsR with some forged rods and pistons, that bottom end is much better equipped from the showroom, plus it comes with VTEC, and if you want to make serious naturally asperated power, I'm sorry, but VTEC is necessary.
PS Its Cams not cam, and header not headers (know you didn't say that, but just to remind people cause it kinda annoys me)

 

Thanks K, I've been under the impression that the VTEC is much better for street strip but that the non VTEC cams are better for serious high rpm work. Many of the higher rpm cam and rocker assemblies for the VTEC head come without the VTEC lobes and "rockers". I saw Ferrea's new roller rocker arm assembly for the VTEC head at the PRI show and it looks pretty nice but it comes without the VTEC "rockers" which goes along with what I had heard. I have a B18C5 and a B18A in my shop now for some work, I'll take a better look at the bottom ends and see what else I can figure out. Thanks again.

 

the ferrea roller rockers lock out vtec. the cost on the ferrea roller rocker system with mandatory cams is around 1700. the cams wont idle below 1700, and takes a while to build to 6000, but when it gets there, its gone.

 

Thanks, they looked like really nice pieces. I'm guessing they printed the 2003 catalog before they got the cam specs in there. They only reference a tech sheet for them. Have you used that setup yet?

 

i havent used it yet, but the key word being yet. every import house i call warned me over and over that it is not a streetable setup. youll have to run your idle way up to at least 1800, anything below 6000 is just goin to piss you off, and stop-n-go traffic is impossible. personally i cant wait for the day i drop those in and take a state line road trip so i can open them up and see what i can do. but even me, race ready rider, suggest having a daily driver because those cams would ruin your engine if driven daily.

but hey, they're bad ass huh? needle bearing roller rockers made out of aluminum-magnesium for even higher rpm's then 7000 series cnc'ed aluminum. jesus was lookin down upon Ferrea when they designed those roller rockers.

but if im not mistaken, mugen makes an aluminum roller setup that doesnt lock out vtec so you could run a domino type cam, make loads of top end power and only have to run your idle up to 1400-1500. or you could just run a more mild cam profile, sacrifice a little hp for practical daily driving and an idle that stays below 1100. and this is the one time i would suggest mugen peices, well they have cheap thermo peices that will help you gain a few xtra ponies.

 

Personally, I wouldn't pull an OEM nonvtec bottom end past ~8K RPMs. You'll hear various grumblings about its rod to stroke ratio in comparison to the VTEC engines, but that is far less of an issue than all the little extra bits the VTEC engines get.

Bottom end wise your primary concern will be the rod bolts. If you are going for minimum budget build I'd slap in a set of ARPs, close her back up, and call it a day.

Beyond that, obviously pistons would be #2, and rods & girdle would tie for #3 in my book. You won't have any strength issues with the stock rods on any but the most extreme NA buildups, but you can shed about 100 grams (out of ~580) per rod with a set of H-beam Eagles or Crower Econobillets (Eagles are cheaper, Crowers are lighter).

Another thing you should consider for the well-being of the entire engine is that VTEC oil pumps flow a good deal more oil at high RPMs.

I'm not going to touch the VTEC issue in relation to strip/track only vehicles in here, if you want to discuss that go ahead and make another thread. I will say, though, that Prototype roller rocker arms are 240 grams lighter than their OEM equivalents (2.1 pounds for the whole engine, for the lazy people in the audience. ). I imagine Ferrea weights are similar. That's a lot of reciprocating mass, and when you eliminate the VTEC lobes you can shave some rotational mass off of the cams as well. For a high-strung vehicle, that may be a huge issue.

 

I was looking at strip only, no street use at all. Looks like I'll shoot for the Eagle rods (as I'm an Eagle dealer) and look into a girdle. I am planning on a carb setup. I'll build my own IR intake so that is no prob and I'm looking at either 50-55mm Lectrons or Webers (Webers are much cheaper).

On a side note, I have to say !!!HOLY MOLY!!! to the two locked down anti-Ferrea-guy posts! Maybe we should start a "theory" thread where we can argue our opinions and not waste time on the threads of the poor guys who just want to ask a silly question.