I just wanted to get your opinion on this situation, not really that it matters, I just kind of want to confirm that I'm not crazy.

My group of friends goes camping a few times a year together, we've been doing this forever. One of my buddies has a 3yo daughter, who has come camping with us before, but has more recently developed a serious bratty attitude (throwing temper tantrums over the slightest thing) and it's evident my buddy and his wife have no intention of disciplining her. On our most recent camping trip, she was a major buzz-kill, basically whining, screaming and being a brat the whole time. She also randomly screamed a few times during the night (sleeping in tents, so pretty much everyone was woken by it). After the trip, I talked to several of my friends and my wife, and the general consensus was that if they want to bring the kid camping, they should at least stay in another campsite a little ways down the road so we can have some separation of "adult space" and "family space." I also tried talking to the dad about it, but he was very defensive and basically thinks he and his daughter can do no wrong.

So I just sent out a group email for our next trip to Moab (the way we normally organize these things). At the end of the email, I wrote:
Both my buddy and his wife immediately emailed me back quite butt hurt.

etc, etc.

I know for a fact after our last trip that if they camp in the same site as us, some of my friends definitely won't come. I'm not suggesting they don't come, I'm just suggesting they set up a separate space so that people can get away from it when the kid is being a holy terror.


Am I being too harsh?

 

Hell no you're not...

Why should the other people have a terrible time because of them...

 

He already said they were out, so the issue is handled.

No sense in inconveniencing everyone because one child can't figure out how to act and the parents are too inconsiderate to handle their business as parents.

 

He needs to understand that he's not on his own anymore. Things aren't like they way they used to be pre-kid. It's a part of the lifestyle change required. If he wants to go camping and the kid doesn't, it's not about him and his needs anymore. Get used to sacrificing. There's many more years where that came from.

If he does go camping, it's not to sleep down the street too. That just sucks. A part of the experience is to be with your friends ... and this really isn't accomplishing that.

I don't mind kids, but it can be difficult hanging out with folks that have em. There's all kinds of adjustments needed from everyone to make the friendship work.

 

this will be the best camping trip ever.



it sounds like you were beyond respectful. he and his wife need to grow up and start being parents. they are an example of why our country has turned out the way it has.

 

This

 

:werd:

Both sides need to make adjustments.

You should talk with your friend and figure out a plan. If X happens, then Y needs to happen. You friend should understand that. I would be pissed if I got that "ps" from my friend.

 

I have tried to talk with him about it in person, and he basically shuts down and is unwilling to listen, or turns the conversation to something else. My wife also tried to have a mom-to-mom discussion with his wife, and she was just full of excuses "it was cold and she was sick, yadda yadda."

Both of them truly believe that their kid is well behaved and that anyone who thinks otherwise is just crazy. The thing is, we like kids. I have a stepdaughter and two nieces who know how to handle themselves around people. And when they start breaking down and getting cranky, my brother either lays down the law or takes them elsewhere to settle down. No issues whatsoever. I also have a nephew who is a holy screaming terror, and his mother knows that he shouldn't go camping until he's older and better behaved and doesn't take him on trips like this.



I do feel bad for my buddy, I know he loves camping with us. And I do want him to come hang out, I just feel like a separate "family space" and "adult space" would be good so there is someplace to go when people need to chill out. But it's also not like camping is the only time we see him. We probably hang out at least 2-3 times a month for happy hour or BBQ's. And his kid is totally welcome at those events.

 

this

 

I'm less tolerant of kids on general principle. But for what it's worth, you are completely within your rights, Dave. You deserve to relax, not be a volunteer babysitter. And if your friend got his panties in a knot over a polite request, IMO it's a sign of denial. If the opportunity arises, perhaps you and your brother can talk to the friend and give him a reality check on parenting before the next trip.