07 Si cold engine surge problems/ advice?
01-13-2007, 06:24 PM
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07 Si cold engine surge problems/ advice?
my 900 mile 4dr Civic Si surges at moderate throttle when cold. I am in wisconsin its about 20 f. in morning. I run 93 octane. It cleans up as soon as engine is warm. I asked service department and they came up with no hits in database. I am hoping that somebody has a suggested fix rather than have them blindly checking everything. Any advice?
As some background information, I have a scanguage and 1. it does not surge in open loop, but with closed loop I can see that instantaneous cold gas mileage in town is down about 10 mpg when surging happens (water temp less than 100f.) . So, it seems this engine is running rich at that time. Once wrmed up, same conditions would give me 20+ mpg and smoth acceleration . Again any advice on what to investigate is appreciated.
As some background information, I have a scanguage and 1. it does not surge in open loop, but with closed loop I can see that instantaneous cold gas mileage in town is down about 10 mpg when surging happens (water temp less than 100f.) . So, it seems this engine is running rich at that time. Once wrmed up, same conditions would give me 20+ mpg and smoth acceleration . Again any advice on what to investigate is appreciated.
Last edited by Road Race; 01-15-2007 at 05:23 PM.
01-15-2007, 05:07 PM
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This isn't California, so no I am not interested in sitting 10 minutes in the garage at 10 f. No other honda I've owned including including my 72 350 CL, 88 CRX Si , Del Sol VTEC, 93 Si, or 2002 Si has ever run like this cold. If it has to be this way, fine but it, and the rev hang are disappointments on what is otherwise a fantastic car. I've since found a string on 8th Gen Civic net, so it appears its a pretty common problem.
I hope the factory's attitude is better than "get used to it". Someday, I am sure they will get it right, i'd just like it to be sooner rather than later.
I hope the factory's attitude is better than "get used to it". Someday, I am sure they will get it right, i'd just like it to be sooner rather than later.
01-16-2007, 04:54 AM
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This isn't California, so no I am not interested in sitting 10 minutes in the garage at 10 f. No other honda I've owned including including my 72 350 CL, 88 CRX Si , Del Sol VTEC, 93 Si, or 2002 Si has ever run like this cold. If it has to be this way, fine but it, and the rev hang are disappointments on what is otherwise a fantastic car. I've since found a string on 8th Gen Civic net, so it appears its a pretty common problem.
I hope the factory's attitude is better than "get used to it". Someday, I am sure they will get it right, i'd just like it to be sooner rather than later.
I hope the factory's attitude is better than "get used to it". Someday, I am sure they will get it right, i'd just like it to be sooner rather than later.
No,...you put on warm clothes, sweater, jacket and instead maybe a coat.
Well, your car when just started up doesnt have its coat on ( oil lubricating the parts ) so you warm it up to do so.
Plus, normal operating temperature is what..150-160F?...
01-16-2007, 10:26 PM
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whether or not all that is true about letting your car warm up, all road race as really trying to figure out is whether or not the surging was normal and if there was a solution. Almost everyone I know (and that includes some pretty stupid people) understands that they should let their car warm up.
I'm actually replying to this thread because I have not noticed the same problem that Road race has had. I have a 2006 coupe si, but I wouldn't think that would make any difference. it's been between 12 and 17 F here the last three days, and I've let my car warm up for two minutes while scraping it and then hopped in and driven to work. I haven't noticed any sort of engine surging. it drives just fine and heats up quickly.
I'm actually replying to this thread because I have not noticed the same problem that Road race has had. I have a 2006 coupe si, but I wouldn't think that would make any difference. it's been between 12 and 17 F here the last three days, and I've let my car warm up for two minutes while scraping it and then hopped in and driven to work. I haven't noticed any sort of engine surging. it drives just fine and heats up quickly.
01-17-2007, 04:47 PM
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Erich has it right
My '07 Si surges until water is nearly 150f. Unfortunately, a 2 mile drive to work at 10f. doesn't allow much warm up time. Example I drove home last night at 5 degrees and the water never got above 140. Of 30 year of driving, I've not had a car that wouldn't pull cleanly cold until this one. In 2007, its not acceptable to say let it warm up to 150 before driving to get the engine to run smoothly.
Granted, I am in a small town in wisconsin with enforced 25 mph limits so I spend a lot of time at 2000 RPM at low load with a cold car. So I may see this problem a lot more than somebody who is on a freeway 30 seconds from the front door. But, I can't believe Honda saw this during cold weather testing and found it acceptable.
The problem is my dealer has nothing to work with other than agreeing its a problem. My two observations are 1) The intown gas mileage is bad, about 22 mpg compared to my wifes 02 si which easily breaks 30. There's even black "spew" coming out of the exhaust. 2) It doesn't surge for the 1st block with the engine in open loop. But as soon as its closed loop, the engine doesn't feel happy
So, is it possible that my car has high fuel pressure, or could there be a off calibration mass flow sensor? If somebody has something concrete to look at, I'd have the dealer investigate. But I don't want to tie the car up in a scavenger hunt, especially if this is a known calibration issue that can't be fixed.
Granted, I am in a small town in wisconsin with enforced 25 mph limits so I spend a lot of time at 2000 RPM at low load with a cold car. So I may see this problem a lot more than somebody who is on a freeway 30 seconds from the front door. But, I can't believe Honda saw this during cold weather testing and found it acceptable.
The problem is my dealer has nothing to work with other than agreeing its a problem. My two observations are 1) The intown gas mileage is bad, about 22 mpg compared to my wifes 02 si which easily breaks 30. There's even black "spew" coming out of the exhaust. 2) It doesn't surge for the 1st block with the engine in open loop. But as soon as its closed loop, the engine doesn't feel happy
So, is it possible that my car has high fuel pressure, or could there be a off calibration mass flow sensor? If somebody has something concrete to look at, I'd have the dealer investigate. But I don't want to tie the car up in a scavenger hunt, especially if this is a known calibration issue that can't be fixed.
01-17-2007, 09:03 PM
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get an engine block heater. or, if you have a garage, just plug a whole bunch of space heaters in. you might burn your garage down, but so what? you still own an Si. 
no, but seriously, I have no answer for you.
no, but seriously, I have no answer for you.
01-18-2007, 04:24 AM
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My '07 Si surges until water is nearly 150f. Unfortunately, a 2 mile drive to work at 10f. doesn't allow much warm up time. Example I drove home last night at 5 degrees and the water never got above 140. Of 30 year of driving, I've not had a car that wouldn't pull cleanly cold until this one. In 2007, its not acceptable to say let it warm up to 150 before driving to get the engine to run smoothly.
Granted, I am in a small town in wisconsin with enforced 25 mph limits so I spend a lot of time at 2000 RPM at low load with a cold car. So I may see this problem a lot more than somebody who is on a freeway 30 seconds from the front door. But, I can't believe Honda saw this during cold weather testing and found it acceptable.
The problem is my dealer has nothing to work with other than agreeing its a problem. My two observations are 1) The intown gas mileage is bad, about 22 mpg compared to my wifes 02 si which easily breaks 30. There's even black "spew" coming out of the exhaust. 2) It doesn't surge for the 1st block with the engine in open loop. But as soon as its closed loop, the engine doesn't feel happy
So, is it possible that my car has high fuel pressure, or could there be a off calibration mass flow sensor? If somebody has something concrete to look at, I'd have the dealer investigate. But I don't want to tie the car up in a scavenger hunt, especially if this is a known calibration issue that can't be fixed.
Granted, I am in a small town in wisconsin with enforced 25 mph limits so I spend a lot of time at 2000 RPM at low load with a cold car. So I may see this problem a lot more than somebody who is on a freeway 30 seconds from the front door. But, I can't believe Honda saw this during cold weather testing and found it acceptable.
The problem is my dealer has nothing to work with other than agreeing its a problem. My two observations are 1) The intown gas mileage is bad, about 22 mpg compared to my wifes 02 si which easily breaks 30. There's even black "spew" coming out of the exhaust. 2) It doesn't surge for the 1st block with the engine in open loop. But as soon as its closed loop, the engine doesn't feel happy
So, is it possible that my car has high fuel pressure, or could there be a off calibration mass flow sensor? If somebody has something concrete to look at, I'd have the dealer investigate. But I don't want to tie the car up in a scavenger hunt, especially if this is a known calibration issue that can't be fixed.
