89 Wagon Not starting no spark HELP!! - Honda-Acura.net

89waggy · 07-02-03, 04:36 AM

I'm working on my friends 89 wagon. its the 1.5l engine.
Anyways the car cut off on the high way and now it wont start. i immediately checked for spark and could get none. So i went to the coil and checked it, it is getting power, 12 v on the input side. i replaced it anyways assuming it was faulty, slapped the new coil in and still no start. I was thinking it could be the main relay but as i understand it that is mostly associated with fuel problems.

what would cause a coil to get power but not deliver a spark?
cap and wires have recently been replaced car only has like 90 k.

alsop he just had the tranny replaced like a week ago. could it be a sensor? which one and where is it located? i know very little about the civic but alot about mechanicing in general.

your response are appreciated!
thanks

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KAUAI KANE · 07-02-03, 05:03 AM

do you have a way to check for codes if so do that

excitid · 07-02-03, 06:45 AM

Did you check to see if the timing belt snapped. To check engine codes you need to pull up the carpet on the passenger side and find the little led light turn you ignition to the on position without starting and count the blinks. If there is more then one code there will be a pause. Here are the codes..........

http://www.crxsi.com/resources/manual/ecu_codes.htm

Code 0 _____ Faulty ECU
Code 1 _____ Oxygen content
Code 2 _____ Does not appear to exist
Code 3 _____ MAP sensor
Code 4 _____ Crank angle sensor
Code 5 _____ MAP sensor again
Code 6 _____ Coolant temperature
Code 7 _____ Throttle angle
Code 8 _____ Top dead center sensor
Code 9 _____ No. 1 cylinder position (only on 1.6L)
Code 10 ____ Intake air temperature
Code 11 ____ Does not appear to exist
Code 12 ____ Exhaust gas recirculation system
Code 13 ____ Atmosphric Pressure
Code 14 ____ Electronic air control (EACV)
Code 15 ____ Ignition output signal
Code 16 ____ Fuel injector
Code 17 ____ Vehicle speed sensor
Code 18 ____ Does not appear to exist
Code 19 ____ Lock up control solenoid (auto trans only)
Code 20 ____ Electric load

XHondaTech · 07-02-03, 11:48 AM

Most likely it is the Igniter unit in the distributor that failed. It could be other things as well, I've seen the screw come out of the distributor rotor and cause a no spark condition, burnt end of a coil due to incorrect install of dist cap. Below are a couple things to check. If it were a t-belt it would sound very different when trying to start, kind of like an electric motor spinning. Did you test the coil to see if you are actually getting spark? First start at the farthest point, the plug. Do you have spark at the end of the wire where it hooks to the plug? Next do you have spark from the coil itself? With the distributor cap off, you can go about this differently, but you can hook plug wire to the coil, as long as it fits deep enough into the coil, and use a spark tester or good spark plug in it and crank it over, if you get no spark from the coil it could be faulty or the igniter unit mounted inside the distributor housing. I would have to go back through my old "Honda Service News" papers to find the article about methodically testing an igniter, which wires supply voltage and such, but it's not a bad idea to replce both at the same time anyway. They are both known to fail.

The main relay usually acts up on really hot days, when the interior temp gets very high, not that it could not have failed, but they usually don't fail once the relay makes contact and the car starts, it's usually a no start thing, not a died while driving thing.

It probably doesnt have anything to do with the trans being replaced last week. If he did something wrong, it most likely would have shown up before a weeks time. And besides, there should have been no reason for him to touch any of the ignition or fuel management stuff to swap a trans.

89waggy · 07-02-03, 10:14 PM

yeah, no spark at the end of the wire, none out of the cap and none at the coil. i had already worked my way back to the coil, and i knew it was getting voltage so i needed to know what was next behind the coil, right now i am looking ionto the igniter possibility. i'll hit up barnes and noble tomorrow for a free look at a service manual for igniter testing procedures.

the igniter will have to be ordered as hondazone.com has it priced at about half of what autozone and advance are asking for it, so i want to check it before buying unlike my coil replacement procedure.

thanks for the suggestions, i'll be checking for codes as well.

btw where in the passenger footwell is this LED light located?

thanks again

excitid · 07-03-03, 07:22 AM

when you lift up the carpet you will see a gold plate covering the ecu with a small circle on it that will allow you to see the led light.

89waggy · 07-03-03, 07:19 PM

Came up as "Code 8- Top dead center sensor" Where do I find one of these? Hondazone, autozone, and advance don't have a listing for it... Please don't tell me it is a dealer only part.

Anyone have any idea how much it is going to run? Where is it on the engine? Thanks

89waggy · 07-03-03, 07:45 PM

Ok so i found the problem, the distributor shaft ( the one that the rotor attaches to is not turning at all) i dont know about this engine at all. Is it gear driven from the exterior of the engine or does the shaft run into the engine? I'm going to buy a used distributor from a junkyard, what i need to know is could it have torn up a cam gear or something eklse that i will need to replace?

XHondaTech · 07-21-03, 11:31 AM

The shaft isnt turning at all? Take the oil filler cap off of the valve cover, can you see the valvetrain moving up and down when you crank the engine? If not you may have a broken timing belt, broken/loosened bolt that holds the cam gear onto the cam or a broken cam. Almost all of those are not frequent failures.

The distributor shaft connects directly to the cam via an off centered slot.

The sensor is in the distributor housing.
Its not a serviceable part to the best of my knowledge, you will need a distributor sub assembly or a used distributor.

Make sure the distributor rotor is not spinning freely on the shaft. I've seen a lot of them that do that. The bolt does not get tightened properly when a new rotor is installed and it backs out.

07-02-03, 06:45 AM	#3
excitid Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: illinois Posts: 836	Did you check to see if the timing belt snapped. To check engine codes you need to pull up the carpet on the passenger side and find the little led light turn you ignition to the on position without starting and count the blinks. If there is more then one code there will be a pause. Here are the codes.......... http://www.crxsi.com/resources/manual/ecu_codes.htm Code 0 _____ Faulty ECU Code 1 _____ Oxygen content Code 2 _____ Does not appear to exist Code 3 _____ MAP sensor Code 4 _____ Crank angle sensor Code 5 _____ MAP sensor again Code 6 _____ Coolant temperature Code 7 _____ Throttle angle Code 8 _____ Top dead center sensor Code 9 _____ No. 1 cylinder position (only on 1.6L) Code 10 ____ Intake air temperature Code 11 ____ Does not appear to exist Code 12 ____ Exhaust gas recirculation system Code 13 ____ Atmosphric Pressure Code 14 ____ Electronic air control (EACV) Code 15 ____ Ignition output signal Code 16 ____ Fuel injector Code 17 ____ Vehicle speed sensor Code 18 ____ Does not appear to exist Code 19 ____ Lock up control solenoid (auto trans only) Code 20 ____ Electric load __________________ I have a honda habit and its getting worse everyday please help me and donate some cash.

07-03-03, 07:22 AM	#6
excitid Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: illinois Posts: 836	when you lift up the carpet you will see a gold plate covering the ecu with a small circle on it that will allow you to see the led light. __________________ I have a honda habit and its getting worse everyday please help me and donate some cash.

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07-02-03, 11:48 AM	#4
XHondaTech Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 25	Most likely it is the Igniter unit in the distributor that failed. It could be other things as well, I've seen the screw come out of the distributor rotor and cause a no spark condition, burnt end of a coil due to incorrect install of dist cap. Below are a couple things to check. If it were a t-belt it would sound very different when trying to start, kind of like an electric motor spinning. Did you test the coil to see if you are actually getting spark? First start at the farthest point, the plug. Do you have spark at the end of the wire where it hooks to the plug? Next do you have spark from the coil itself? With the distributor cap off, you can go about this differently, but you can hook plug wire to the coil, as long as it fits deep enough into the coil, and use a spark tester or good spark plug in it and crank it over, if you get no spark from the coil it could be faulty or the igniter unit mounted inside the distributor housing. I would have to go back through my old "Honda Service News" papers to find the article about methodically testing an igniter, which wires supply voltage and such, but it's not a bad idea to replce both at the same time anyway. They are both known to fail. The main relay usually acts up on really hot days, when the interior temp gets very high, not that it could not have failed, but they usually don't fail once the relay makes contact and the car starts, it's usually a no start thing, not a died while driving thing. It probably doesnt have anything to do with the trans being replaced last week. If he did something wrong, it most likely would have shown up before a weeks time. And besides, there should have been no reason for him to touch any of the ignition or fuel management stuff to swap a trans.

07-02-03, 10:14 PM	#5
89waggy Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 6	yeah, no spark at the end of the wire, none out of the cap and none at the coil. i had already worked my way back to the coil, and i knew it was getting voltage so i needed to know what was next behind the coil, right now i am looking ionto the igniter possibility. i'll hit up barnes and noble tomorrow for a free look at a service manual for igniter testing procedures. the igniter will have to be ordered as hondazone.com has it priced at about half of what autozone and advance are asking for it, so i want to check it before buying unlike my coil replacement procedure. thanks for the suggestions, i'll be checking for codes as well. btw where in the passenger footwell is this LED light located? thanks again

07-03-03, 07:19 PM	#7
89waggy Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 6	Came up as "Code 8- Top dead center sensor" Where do I find one of these? Hondazone, autozone, and advance don't have a listing for it... Please don't tell me it is a dealer only part. Anyone have any idea how much it is going to run? Where is it on the engine? Thanks

07-03-03, 07:45 PM	#8
89waggy Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 6	Ok so i found the problem, the distributor shaft ( the one that the rotor attaches to is not turning at all) i dont know about this engine at all. Is it gear driven from the exterior of the engine or does the shaft run into the engine? I'm going to buy a used distributor from a junkyard, what i need to know is could it have torn up a cam gear or something eklse that i will need to replace?

07-21-03, 11:31 AM	#9
XHondaTech Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 25	The shaft isnt turning at all? Take the oil filler cap off of the valve cover, can you see the valvetrain moving up and down when you crank the engine? If not you may have a broken timing belt, broken/loosened bolt that holds the cam gear onto the cam or a broken cam. Almost all of those are not frequent failures. The distributor shaft connects directly to the cam via an off centered slot. The sensor is in the distributor housing. Its not a serviceable part to the best of my knowledge, you will need a distributor sub assembly or a used distributor. Make sure the distributor rotor is not spinning freely on the shaft. I've seen a lot of them that do that. The bolt does not get tightened properly when a new rotor is installed and it backs out.