December 2007 Exhaust Notes
02-01-2008, 07:00 AM
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December 2007 Exhaust Notes
December 2007 Exhaust Notes
You say it's lame to bolt up an Accord transmission (manual) with a H22A. I'm building my '94 Accord right now and am needing some professional advice with what transmission to go with. My objective is to have a fast daily driver, OK on gas too, but I don't expect crazy-good gas mileage, like 50 mpg. I have a stock JDM H22A with a Turbonetics turbo kit, what tranny is good for this setup? Boosted with stock internals, what is the safest, optimal boost to run fully tuned by a professional?-Sarb Johal / Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
50 mpg in a turbo H22 Accord!?!? OK, here's how to do it. Only drive downhill and coast as much as possible. Make sure there are no stop signs or traffic lights either, that kills mileage.-Brian Gillespie, Hasport Performance, Inc., www.hasport.com
I Recently spent over $8K on a balance and blueprinted all-motor LS VTEC setup that resulted in "less than desirable" numbers (around 160 whp to be exact). I was told that I needed to change my header and run a bigger diameter exhaust because I was running 11.5:1 pistons and BC Spec 4 cams. Also, it was stated that I should be making at least 200 whp. Currently I am running a HP 4-2-1 Header with a 2-inch collector that eventually exits from an exhaust that has 2.25-inch diameter piping. It was suggested to run a 4-1 ITR header with a 2.5-inch collector and an exhaust with a minimum of 2.5-inch piping. Along with Hondata tuning, will this actually make that big of a difference in gaining horsepower? If so, where can I find such a header and exhaust for my car (I have yet to find a company that produces products for my car with the specs I need)?-Joe Watson / Northern, Va.
Joe, rarely is there one thing that will make a dramatic change to the power levels of an engine, but in your case I will make an exception. The whole engine needs to be looked at as a package deal. All the parts need to work in conjunction with each other to get the maximum power out of it. With your BC Spec 4 cams they are probably too big for the compression ratio you are running. What's happening is with the added cam duration of the Spec 4's, you are losing too much inlet charge out the exhaust port on valve overlap, which makes your dynamic compression ratio low (dynamic compression ratio is the actual compression of the engine while it is running). Your 11.5:1 is probably down to 9.5:1 with those cams. I would suggest going back to ITR cams and a better header and 2.5-inch exhaust. The long tube 4-2-1 designs will pull the most out of your setup. You will be surprised at how much power the ITR cams can make with the right header.-John Grudynski, HyTech Exhaust Inc. www.hytechexhaust.com
Just read a tech question from your July '07 issue entitled "Come On Over" in which a guy wanted to know if it was possible to make power in his '06 Civic LX with the new R18 SOHC motor. Your response was that there are a handful of intakes and exhausts out there but no aftermarket headers due to a single exhaust port on the head. In the end, you guys suggest that he should try to fabricate a custom turbo kit for the motor. Polk Audio's '06 Civic EX Coupe has an R18 with a Precision Turbo ball-bearing turbo setup, but the car was never strapped to a dyno. So I wonder what kind of power that setup could make? Some us of do like to swap new motor setups but don't want to go the expensive route of the K-series engine. What about the possibility of swapping this R18 motor into older chassis like the EF, EG/J and other Honda chassis? Can it be done and who do we turn to for the motor mounts and ECU tuning?-Jermain Martinez / Ft. Hood/Killeen, Texas
An R18 engine swap would not be very practical for numerous reasons, the foremost being economics. Since you used the K-series as an example of too expensive, we'll use that to compare against. A quick scan of www.car-part.com shows the engines cost as much or more than Accord K24 engines. The transmissions cost the same as the '03 and up Civic Si transmissions, a good choice for your K24.
To get the engine in, you'd need mounts, ECU, shift linkage, radiator and wiring. Basically the same parts you would need to install a K-series. It winds up being just as expensive as a K-series with a lot less to show for the effort.
If the motors begin to pile up in the salvage yards thereby bringing prices down and aftermarket companies begin making parts to enhance performance, it may become attractive enough for swapping. For now though, you can do a B18 LS swap in the EF or EG/J/K for cheap and have a ton of aftermarket support.-Brian Gillespie, Hasport Performance, Inc., www.hasport.com
I want to buy a JDM engine. I don't care if it's a SOHC or DOHC, like the F23A VTEC, H22A or H23A VTEC. I like the USDM F23A1 better for its 97mm stroke. I want to know if the JDM F23A has a better engine block design and more bore x stroke than the USDM F23A1, or if the JDM H23A VTEC has a better block and bigger bore x stroke? Which of the JDM H22 has better flowing cylinder head and what's its cylinder head casting number?-Christopher Alers / Walla Walla, Washington
Let me give you some general guidelines for the engines you mentioned above. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the Honda H23 and F23 designated engines should have the same bore and stroke. As for the heads, the DOHC heads flow better than the SOHC heads and VTEC heads flow the best. I don't know anyone who has done a side by side comparison of the H-series heads for flow rates. If there is a difference, it is in the later model engines, but not that I've heard.
If you're interested in Honda engine specs, there a several really good sources. This one allows you to look up the engine by block number: http://honda-portal.com/engine_specs.php. For JDM model specs I use this source: http://www.honda.co.jp/HOT/ModelData/index.html. Drop the web address into a translator like AltaVista Babelfish or Google Translate. Take a look at the Prelude Type-R specs, at 200 ps, which would be the JDM H-series engine to have.-Brian Gillespie, Hasport Performance, Inc., www.hasport.com
I have a '96 Civic LX four-door. The stock D16 with A/T took a dump after 250K miles. I have a '94 JDM SIR-G Integra automatic tranny leftover from a swap and I wanted to put that transmission with an OBD-II JDM B20B in the Civic. I also want keep A/C and P/S. My major concern is that the OBD-I trans. Will it work with the OBD-II(a) computer from the LX or should I hunt for an OBD-II(a) Integra LS A/T instead. I know I will have to modify the LX's engine wiring harness for the TPS but I was hoping to retain it and the computer. This won't be a race car just a daily driver B20 with A/T and better gear ratios.-Scott Herrin / Pensacola, Fla.
Sorry, not only will the LX computer not run the Integra tranny properly but it won't run the engine properly either. Putting in the Integra ECU won't solve your problem. It doesn't run the automatic transmission. In the Integra there is a separate "Transmission Control Module" for the automatics.-Brian Gillespie, Hasport Performance, Inc., www.hasport.com
I have a '91 CRX DX that I plan to swap a B16A into. When I get the swap I want to upgrade the brakes at the same time and I was wondering if there is any possible way to do an Integra Type-R five lug swap onto my CRX. I was also wondering what the best parts and the best prices would be?-Jon Silvers / Walla Walla, Washington
This is how I did the five lug swap on my '88 CRX. I started by purchasing the Type-R rear trailing arms with brakes from a salvage yard. The trailing arms were bent and were from separate cars, but that didn't matter to me since I just wanted some of the parts. There are four large Torx bolts that hold the spindles to the trailing arms. After heating them with a torch to release the thread locker and soaking them in rust remover, I unbolted the spindles and put them on the CRX trailing arms. The spindles have the mount tabs for the Type-R brakes so they mounted on without any trouble.
On the front end, I went the aftermarket route. I called The Driveshaft Shop and ordered some level 3.9 axles and hubs for my K24 swapped EF. I asked that the hubs be made in a five lug configuration instead of the standard four. If you don't need or want the mongo 3.9 or 5.9 axles the same thing can be accomplished with ITR hubs. Order a set of U.S. ITR five lug hubs and some '90-'91 Civic EX bearings from the dealership. You'll also need some used '90-'91 Civic EX knuckles from the salvage yard.
Have the EX hubs pressed out of the knuckles and head on down to your friendly machine shop. Have the shop machine the ITR hubs to match the EX hubs. This will allow you to press the IT hubs into the EX hubs which will mount directly onto your CRX. With a little modification to the caliper bracket, you can use the Type-R brakes on the new knuckles.-Brian Gillespie, Hasport Performance, Inc., www.hasport.com
Got questions, comments, love or hate?
Send your letteres to:
* E-Mail:
Editorial@Hondatuningmagazine.com
*Snail Mail:
2400 E. Katella Ave, STE. 1100
Anaheim, CA 92806
Photo Gallery: December 2007 Exhaust Notes - Readers Questions Answered - Honda Tuning Magazine
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You say it's lame to bolt up an Accord transmission (manual) with a H22A. I'm building my '94 Accord right now and am needing some professional advice with what transmission to go with. My objective is to have a fast daily driver, OK on gas too, but I don't expect crazy-good gas mileage, like 50 mpg. I have a stock JDM H22A with a Turbonetics turbo kit, what tranny is good for this setup? Boosted with stock internals, what is the safest, optimal boost to run fully tuned by a professional?-Sarb Johal / Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada50 mpg in a turbo H22 Accord!?!? OK, here's how to do it. Only drive downhill and coast as much as possible. Make sure there are no stop signs or traffic lights either, that kills mileage.-Brian Gillespie, Hasport Performance, Inc., www.hasport.com
I Recently spent over $8K on a balance and blueprinted all-motor LS VTEC setup that resulted in "less than desirable" numbers (around 160 whp to be exact). I was told that I needed to change my header and run a bigger diameter exhaust because I was running 11.5:1 pistons and BC Spec 4 cams. Also, it was stated that I should be making at least 200 whp. Currently I am running a HP 4-2-1 Header with a 2-inch collector that eventually exits from an exhaust that has 2.25-inch diameter piping. It was suggested to run a 4-1 ITR header with a 2.5-inch collector and an exhaust with a minimum of 2.5-inch piping. Along with Hondata tuning, will this actually make that big of a difference in gaining horsepower? If so, where can I find such a header and exhaust for my car (I have yet to find a company that produces products for my car with the specs I need)?-Joe Watson / Northern, Va.
Joe, rarely is there one thing that will make a dramatic change to the power levels of an engine, but in your case I will make an exception. The whole engine needs to be looked at as a package deal. All the parts need to work in conjunction with each other to get the maximum power out of it. With your BC Spec 4 cams they are probably too big for the compression ratio you are running. What's happening is with the added cam duration of the Spec 4's, you are losing too much inlet charge out the exhaust port on valve overlap, which makes your dynamic compression ratio low (dynamic compression ratio is the actual compression of the engine while it is running). Your 11.5:1 is probably down to 9.5:1 with those cams. I would suggest going back to ITR cams and a better header and 2.5-inch exhaust. The long tube 4-2-1 designs will pull the most out of your setup. You will be surprised at how much power the ITR cams can make with the right header.-John Grudynski, HyTech Exhaust Inc. www.hytechexhaust.com
Just read a tech question from your July '07 issue entitled "Come On Over" in which a guy wanted to know if it was possible to make power in his '06 Civic LX with the new R18 SOHC motor. Your response was that there are a handful of intakes and exhausts out there but no aftermarket headers due to a single exhaust port on the head. In the end, you guys suggest that he should try to fabricate a custom turbo kit for the motor. Polk Audio's '06 Civic EX Coupe has an R18 with a Precision Turbo ball-bearing turbo setup, but the car was never strapped to a dyno. So I wonder what kind of power that setup could make? Some us of do like to swap new motor setups but don't want to go the expensive route of the K-series engine. What about the possibility of swapping this R18 motor into older chassis like the EF, EG/J and other Honda chassis? Can it be done and who do we turn to for the motor mounts and ECU tuning?-Jermain Martinez / Ft. Hood/Killeen, Texas
An R18 engine swap would not be very practical for numerous reasons, the foremost being economics. Since you used the K-series as an example of too expensive, we'll use that to compare against. A quick scan of www.car-part.com shows the engines cost as much or more than Accord K24 engines. The transmissions cost the same as the '03 and up Civic Si transmissions, a good choice for your K24.
To get the engine in, you'd need mounts, ECU, shift linkage, radiator and wiring. Basically the same parts you would need to install a K-series. It winds up being just as expensive as a K-series with a lot less to show for the effort.
If the motors begin to pile up in the salvage yards thereby bringing prices down and aftermarket companies begin making parts to enhance performance, it may become attractive enough for swapping. For now though, you can do a B18 LS swap in the EF or EG/J/K for cheap and have a ton of aftermarket support.-Brian Gillespie, Hasport Performance, Inc., www.hasport.com
I want to buy a JDM engine. I don't care if it's a SOHC or DOHC, like the F23A VTEC, H22A or H23A VTEC. I like the USDM F23A1 better for its 97mm stroke. I want to know if the JDM F23A has a better engine block design and more bore x stroke than the USDM F23A1, or if the JDM H23A VTEC has a better block and bigger bore x stroke? Which of the JDM H22 has better flowing cylinder head and what's its cylinder head casting number?-Christopher Alers / Walla Walla, Washington
Let me give you some general guidelines for the engines you mentioned above. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the Honda H23 and F23 designated engines should have the same bore and stroke. As for the heads, the DOHC heads flow better than the SOHC heads and VTEC heads flow the best. I don't know anyone who has done a side by side comparison of the H-series heads for flow rates. If there is a difference, it is in the later model engines, but not that I've heard.
If you're interested in Honda engine specs, there a several really good sources. This one allows you to look up the engine by block number: http://honda-portal.com/engine_specs.php. For JDM model specs I use this source: http://www.honda.co.jp/HOT/ModelData/index.html. Drop the web address into a translator like AltaVista Babelfish or Google Translate. Take a look at the Prelude Type-R specs, at 200 ps, which would be the JDM H-series engine to have.-Brian Gillespie, Hasport Performance, Inc., www.hasport.com
I have a '96 Civic LX four-door. The stock D16 with A/T took a dump after 250K miles. I have a '94 JDM SIR-G Integra automatic tranny leftover from a swap and I wanted to put that transmission with an OBD-II JDM B20B in the Civic. I also want keep A/C and P/S. My major concern is that the OBD-I trans. Will it work with the OBD-II(a) computer from the LX or should I hunt for an OBD-II(a) Integra LS A/T instead. I know I will have to modify the LX's engine wiring harness for the TPS but I was hoping to retain it and the computer. This won't be a race car just a daily driver B20 with A/T and better gear ratios.-Scott Herrin / Pensacola, Fla.
Sorry, not only will the LX computer not run the Integra tranny properly but it won't run the engine properly either. Putting in the Integra ECU won't solve your problem. It doesn't run the automatic transmission. In the Integra there is a separate "Transmission Control Module" for the automatics.-Brian Gillespie, Hasport Performance, Inc., www.hasport.com
I have a '91 CRX DX that I plan to swap a B16A into. When I get the swap I want to upgrade the brakes at the same time and I was wondering if there is any possible way to do an Integra Type-R five lug swap onto my CRX. I was also wondering what the best parts and the best prices would be?-Jon Silvers / Walla Walla, Washington
This is how I did the five lug swap on my '88 CRX. I started by purchasing the Type-R rear trailing arms with brakes from a salvage yard. The trailing arms were bent and were from separate cars, but that didn't matter to me since I just wanted some of the parts. There are four large Torx bolts that hold the spindles to the trailing arms. After heating them with a torch to release the thread locker and soaking them in rust remover, I unbolted the spindles and put them on the CRX trailing arms. The spindles have the mount tabs for the Type-R brakes so they mounted on without any trouble.
On the front end, I went the aftermarket route. I called The Driveshaft Shop and ordered some level 3.9 axles and hubs for my K24 swapped EF. I asked that the hubs be made in a five lug configuration instead of the standard four. If you don't need or want the mongo 3.9 or 5.9 axles the same thing can be accomplished with ITR hubs. Order a set of U.S. ITR five lug hubs and some '90-'91 Civic EX bearings from the dealership. You'll also need some used '90-'91 Civic EX knuckles from the salvage yard.
Have the EX hubs pressed out of the knuckles and head on down to your friendly machine shop. Have the shop machine the ITR hubs to match the EX hubs. This will allow you to press the IT hubs into the EX hubs which will mount directly onto your CRX. With a little modification to the caliper bracket, you can use the Type-R brakes on the new knuckles.-Brian Gillespie, Hasport Performance, Inc., www.hasport.com
Got questions, comments, love or hate?
Send your letteres to:
* E-Mail:
Editorial@Hondatuningmagazine.com
*Snail Mail:
2400 E. Katella Ave, STE. 1100
Anaheim, CA 92806
Photo Gallery: December 2007 Exhaust Notes - Readers Questions Answered - Honda Tuning Magazine
Read More | Digg It | Add to del.icio.us
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