wedley2

heard it on the news today, thought to myself...he did pretty well.

Epoch

This reminds me of the time that you posted that global warming law thing about the BBQ permits, and when it turned out to be a joke, you played it off on the premise of it being something you'd be sure that could happen and that people concerned with global warming would use this as another way to tax people.

There has yet to be an ounce of evidence suggesting this guy's behavior was associated with video games. What evidence DOES exist shows that he was an extreme loner, medicated for depression, and that he bought a glock 36 days before this crime. Now, I dunno about video games, but I think easy access to firearms had an AWFUL LOT MORE to do with this shooting than video game playing you seem to be making up.

[QUOTE=dubcac;3461328]So what...you're seeing a rise in violent crime due to increasing video game sales? How about increasing population? I bet that has nothing to do with it. [quote]

Sorry... I think the graph was a bit unclear. It showed that although there were greater numbers of videogames being sold, there were less violent crimes being committed each year.

I also just found this graphic:


Exactly. Specifically, we had a guy who just could not interact with society around him (at least, according to the reports so far), and something must have built up inside him until the point of snapping. The question is: How can you prevent an event like this? Unfortunately, I cannot think of any way to realistically do this within the bounds of the constitution. I think the event unfolded tragically, but it ended a lot better than it could have been. Lots of people survived, and he wont be killing any more people... but it still sucks for everyone involved. I hate to imagine what the families of the deceased are going through

reno96teg

played it off on what premise?

oh right.. because the other option i had - to let the thread die without correcting my mistake - would have been much nobler.

anyway, i guess you missed my post where i stated exactly what violent crime includes. how about a comparison of violent game sales alone versus crimes like murder and aggravated assault alone? your charts will be meaningful once you narrow it down to that. i'm also guessing you missed the part where violent crime is up in cities across the country in the past two years, and how murder is up in boston this year, even though violent crime is down.

anyway, now we're just arguing for the sake of arguing. this incident served as a reminder to me that this shit out there serves as an influence. i'm pretty sure i never said it was the root cause.

he seemed to interact well enough to get into VA tech and pick up a reasonably attractive girlfriend...

mayonaise

Gee, that sounds an awful lot like what you denied saying.
Can you even begin to explain why years and years of violence in video games, movies, TV shows, etc, leads to an overall drop in all violent crimes over the same period? Decades of violent influences, and only the two most recent years are relevant? Please. Ignoring the question doesn't make you right.

reno96teg

uh, no it doesn't.

it's down versus when? a ten year span compared against itself? overall do you think it's better or worse than 100 years ago, before all this shit came into play? you can't look at peaks and valleys in the short term alone. that's absurd.

the fact is that our society nowadays is rude and selfish, more prone to violence, more prone to fucking someone over to get their way, etc. people have this "me first, everyone else second" attitude that is fucking everything up. don't tell me this isn't true because everyone who doesn't live out in east bumble fuck sees it daily. and that is the message being taught via games, movies, and all other forms of mass media, interactive and not.

i don't see how anyone can deny this. look at all the shit they play on MTV all day long. how many movies are out that show someone "doing what it takes" to get their way? how about all the "fight clubs" that sprouted up everywhere after that movie? what about all these people emulating wrestling movies after watching that shit on TV and sometimes seriously hurting themselves and others?

people ARE influenced by everything they interact with, whether it be a book, a movie, a fucking walk in the park. it's human nature. we grow through our experiences, whatever they may be. hell, epoch himself said that his trip to burning man changed his outlook on life. again, it is human nature.

so hoo-fucking-ray.. you're (maybe) less likely to be shot in the face today, versus 1991. and why did things get temporarily better after that? because people were outraged at how bad it was getting and pushed back. does that mean things are dandy now? hell no.

things are worse. period. stop trying to candy coat shit so that you can revel in your obscenities without guilt.

mayonaise

Is that why you keep pointing to "the last couple years" only?

I agree with a lot of what you said. The world is a different place now than it was in 1960, 1970, 1980... However, looking at a few factors and throwing in some handy statistics from 1960 tells you absolutely nothing when the equation is infinitely more complicated. Yeah, we're all influenced by what we see and hear. But then, why is it that the vast majority of people are able to distinguish between fantasy and reality? People commit crimes for a million different reasons. You can eliminate violence in movies, TV, and games - sterilize society and claim victory. There will still be 999,997 reasons left.

Why would I need to candy coat the magical fantasy land that is video games? These are not obscenities, they're what a third-grader would call make-believe, and I'm certainly not going to feel guilty about that. That some people can't make the distinction speaks to larger societal issues, and using things like video games as a scape goat is nothing more than a half-ass way of ignoring them.

reno96teg

i pointed that out because you and epoch keep saying that violent crime has gone down when in fact it's on the rise again in recent years.

oh right.. when you can't refute the numbers, it's "infinitely more complicated". i see your game.

for the last time, i never said games/movies/etc. are the root cause, but i do believe the movie/entertainment/gaming industry are being grossly irresponsible. i also believe it goes back to the parents in part as well. yes, there are many factors, but 1 out of a million? i don't think so.

why is it that more than double the people, maybe triple (per 100,000) versus 50 years ago CANNOT make that distinction nowadays?

seriously. what a poor reply. stop wasting my time.

Kestrel

Yes. In the late 90's there was a concerted anti-gang/anti-drug effort by law enforcement. Add to that that gang bangers were getting older and/or getting offed by their homies, and general economic prosperity of that period. It has really nothing to do with TV's or movies, and everything to do with picking the low hanging fruit so to speak.

But I do agree with reno that you can't take movies and TV out of the equation entirely. I don't think it's the violence per se, but many games and movies, again, focus their plots individual making a rogue stand against injustice and "The Man." It glorifies the rogue, when in reality the issues of injustice are often very complex.

mayonaise

The point that I believe Epoch was trying to make is that as long as violent video games have been prevalent, violent crime is down. Violent crime dropped sharply in the 90s, when violence in video games was increasing and gaining a wider audience. Has there been a sharp up-tick in video game violence in the last two years alone?

You seem to have some problems interpreting figurative language.

No, that isn't even a valid question, unless you want to attribute ALL violent crimes to fictional violence. But you're not doing that, right?

You're wasting your own time. Not my problem. :fawk:

I agree with that, too. But it's a lot more (yup, infinitely more) complicated than A implies B.

spanky

:rofl: @ the video game debate.

we should just ban asians. if we had banned asians this guy would never have killed anyone.