Acura heading for market with a 400-hp, 42-mpg hybrid performance car
10-03-2002, 03:52 AM
#1
Tastes like DonkeyBalls
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 447
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Acura heading for market with a 400-hp, 42-mpg hybrid performance car
Pictures of the Honda DualNote (Acura DN-X) Concept to which this will be based:
From Autoweek:
The Paris motor show offered its share of fuel cell and hybrid news: GM’s skateboard-like Hy-Wire made its rolling debut, while Peugeot showed the H2O, a fuel cell-powered firetruck (really, we’re not making this up), and Renault rolled out a turbodiesel with an integrated starter-generator capable of propelling the car on electric power alone.
Somewhere between Toyota’s claims that its gasoline-electric Prius is turning a profit, and General Motors’ promises for its pie-in-the-sky fuel cell-powered electric car of the future, lies a niche for performance-variety hybrids that no one has bothered talking about very much.
Although typically touted as easier on the planet than anything since the invention of the internal-combustion engine, fuel cell cars and hybrids—the great green hopes—and high-performance tuning have rarely shared the same space. At least until now.
Honda officials say that, in the next 12 to 18 months, they’re preparing to make good on the promise embodied in the Acura DN-X sports sedan concept shown at last spring’s New York auto show. The car first appeared as the Honda Dualnote at the earlier Tokyo show, where our editors promptly named it Best in Show (AW, Nov. 5, 2001).
“Don’t let the four doors fool you,” American Honda’s executive vice president Tom Elliott said back then. “The DN-X concept is all sports car.”
More recently, Elliott has been quoted saying Honda’s follow-up to the hybrid Insight and Civic Hybrid will be an Acura-badged gas-electric hybrid performance car. “And it could be soon,” Elliott says.
Before you go digging into dog-eared piles of old AutoWeek copies from six months ago, here’s a quick refresher on the DN-X: The concept Acura boasts a 300-hp 3.5-liter i-VTEC V6 powering the rear wheels, coupled to a 100-hp integrated starter-generator electric motor driving all four wheels, creating a 400-hp all-wheel-drive sports sedan. In other words, V8 power in a V6 with an estimated 42 mpg.
In the DN-X, engineers run those horses through a six-speed transmission capable of operating in manual or automatic mode. The concept also incorporates drive- by-wire technology for steering and four-wheel disc braking. Suspension is fully independent, with double wishbones front and rear, and 18-inch front and 19-inch rear wheels and tires. Finally, engineers developed what Honda describes as a lightweight yet rigid sports car body for the concept that Acura claims is wind tunnel-tuned to have a 25 percent lower drag coefficient than an NSX.
Like its established predecessors, the Insight and Civic Hybrid, the performance Acura hybrid will draw extra low-end torque from the electric motor to help reduce fuel consumption while maintaining acceleration. Also, like Insight and Civic Hybrid, batteries to power the electric motor are recharged during braking, when the electric motor converts to generator mode. As a result, the car won’t require external electric charging.
While Honda and Acura officials are tight-lipped about specifics, they do confirm Acura’s hybrid runner will incorporate as much of the DN-X’s DNA as possible, including strong horsepower numbers, all-wheel drive and sports sedan styling. How much the production car will mirror the concept is uncertain. But given Honda’s track record of building production vehicles that closely follow the concept’s pattern, a DN-X, without some of the high-tech gadgetry (camera systems, lane-keeping adaptive cruise control, night vision), isn’t too much a stretch to expect. And apparently we can expect it soon.
:thumbup: :naughty:
all comments welcome!!
From Autoweek:
The Paris motor show offered its share of fuel cell and hybrid news: GM’s skateboard-like Hy-Wire made its rolling debut, while Peugeot showed the H2O, a fuel cell-powered firetruck (really, we’re not making this up), and Renault rolled out a turbodiesel with an integrated starter-generator capable of propelling the car on electric power alone.
Somewhere between Toyota’s claims that its gasoline-electric Prius is turning a profit, and General Motors’ promises for its pie-in-the-sky fuel cell-powered electric car of the future, lies a niche for performance-variety hybrids that no one has bothered talking about very much.
Although typically touted as easier on the planet than anything since the invention of the internal-combustion engine, fuel cell cars and hybrids—the great green hopes—and high-performance tuning have rarely shared the same space. At least until now.
Honda officials say that, in the next 12 to 18 months, they’re preparing to make good on the promise embodied in the Acura DN-X sports sedan concept shown at last spring’s New York auto show. The car first appeared as the Honda Dualnote at the earlier Tokyo show, where our editors promptly named it Best in Show (AW, Nov. 5, 2001).
“Don’t let the four doors fool you,” American Honda’s executive vice president Tom Elliott said back then. “The DN-X concept is all sports car.”
More recently, Elliott has been quoted saying Honda’s follow-up to the hybrid Insight and Civic Hybrid will be an Acura-badged gas-electric hybrid performance car. “And it could be soon,” Elliott says.
Before you go digging into dog-eared piles of old AutoWeek copies from six months ago, here’s a quick refresher on the DN-X: The concept Acura boasts a 300-hp 3.5-liter i-VTEC V6 powering the rear wheels, coupled to a 100-hp integrated starter-generator electric motor driving all four wheels, creating a 400-hp all-wheel-drive sports sedan. In other words, V8 power in a V6 with an estimated 42 mpg.
In the DN-X, engineers run those horses through a six-speed transmission capable of operating in manual or automatic mode. The concept also incorporates drive- by-wire technology for steering and four-wheel disc braking. Suspension is fully independent, with double wishbones front and rear, and 18-inch front and 19-inch rear wheels and tires. Finally, engineers developed what Honda describes as a lightweight yet rigid sports car body for the concept that Acura claims is wind tunnel-tuned to have a 25 percent lower drag coefficient than an NSX.
Like its established predecessors, the Insight and Civic Hybrid, the performance Acura hybrid will draw extra low-end torque from the electric motor to help reduce fuel consumption while maintaining acceleration. Also, like Insight and Civic Hybrid, batteries to power the electric motor are recharged during braking, when the electric motor converts to generator mode. As a result, the car won’t require external electric charging.
While Honda and Acura officials are tight-lipped about specifics, they do confirm Acura’s hybrid runner will incorporate as much of the DN-X’s DNA as possible, including strong horsepower numbers, all-wheel drive and sports sedan styling. How much the production car will mirror the concept is uncertain. But given Honda’s track record of building production vehicles that closely follow the concept’s pattern, a DN-X, without some of the high-tech gadgetry (camera systems, lane-keeping adaptive cruise control, night vision), isn’t too much a stretch to expect. And apparently we can expect it soon.
:thumbup: :naughty:
all comments welcome!!
10-03-2002, 07:01 AM
#2
Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
:thumbup: This vehicle sounds promising! I hope it is an RL/Legend replacement in some respects. Not that I would ever be able to afford it, but it would make me so happy to be a Honda follower all over again!
Come to think of it, I'm unsure Acura would have this vehicle be an RL/Legend replacement. It sounds like the DN-X production model will be more of a sports car than a luxury car, and mid-engine wold hardly be a good choice for an RL replacement. Perhaps this is the NSX replacement and/or counterpart? Either way, I can't wait to see it debut!
10-03-2002, 10:18 AM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Frisco, Texas
Posts: 2,523
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lemme guess whats its going to be called, DNX. Anyways, this is VERY exciting. They are going to be the first to show the world how high performance IMA can be done, and its only a glimpse into the future.
And yeah, I wouldnt be too suprised if it is jsut a toned down version of the DN-X we saw.
I think they should make this traditionally, no all-aluminum or hand assembled. That should be reserved for the NSX using an even more power version of this IMA system.
And yeah, I wouldnt be too suprised if it is jsut a toned down version of the DN-X we saw.
I think they should make this traditionally, no all-aluminum or hand assembled. That should be reserved for the NSX using an even more power version of this IMA system.
10-03-2002, 10:38 AM
#4
HC Racer H5
Join Date: May 2000
Location: KCK
Posts: 4,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hmmm...i would be expecting acura to make the rdx type setup instead of the dnx...the 200hp fwd with 50 hp to the rear wheels in the awd configuration...it's gotta be easier and much cheaoer than trying to make a 4 door mid engine awd car
10-03-2002, 10:45 AM
#5
Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by jaje
hmmm...i would be expecting acura to make the rdx type setup instead of the dnx...the 200hp fwd with 50 hp to the rear wheels in the awd configuration...it's gotta be easier and much cheaoer than trying to make a 4 door mid engine awd car
hmmm...i would be expecting acura to make the rdx type setup instead of the dnx...the 200hp fwd with 50 hp to the rear wheels in the awd configuration...it's gotta be easier and much cheaoer than trying to make a 4 door mid engine awd car
On another note, anyone realize that the 2003 Accord produces more power and has just about every feature you could ever want out of an Acura RL at half the cost. Why would anyone buy an RL? Really? They need to get rid of that horrible vehicle... DNX > RL
10-03-2002, 11:24 AM
#6
lots and lots of fail
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeetroit
Posts: 23,004
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Originally posted by Xcivic
Yeah, I don't see Honda bringing out another mid-engined vehicle, so it would be more like the RDX in its application I assume. Although I must say that I hope they never bring out the RDX under the Acura name, as it just doesn't fit.
On another note, anyone realize that the 2003 Accord produces more power and has just about every feature you could ever want out of an Acura RL at half the cost. Why would anyone buy an RL? Really? They need to get rid of that horrible vehicle... DNX > RL
Yeah, I don't see Honda bringing out another mid-engined vehicle, so it would be more like the RDX in its application I assume. Although I must say that I hope they never bring out the RDX under the Acura name, as it just doesn't fit.
On another note, anyone realize that the 2003 Accord produces more power and has just about every feature you could ever want out of an Acura RL at half the cost. Why would anyone buy an RL? Really? They need to get rid of that horrible vehicle... DNX > RL
Yianni, it will NOT be called DNX, trust me on this. DN-X is just short for DualNote Concept, and it's a lousy name anyway. I have no idea WTF to think here, I've always thought the DualNote would be the basis for the next NSX. I still think that. I'm very unsure here, because Elliot pretty much said it would be 4 doors. That is not an NSX. So I'm not saying anything until we get more evidence.
I'm totally confused on this. At any rate, I don't expect this to come out in its current form...either they give the powertrain to the NSX and take styling elements, make a 4 door sedan with an RDX-like system, or do something crazy.
10-03-2002, 11:48 AM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Frisco, Texas
Posts: 2,523
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by 02RSXTYPES
I assume the basis for the powertrain will be the next NSX. I do expect something like an RDX to debut, because a DualNote powertrain in a sedan is virtually impossible unless it's got Porsche seats in the back. XC, it's certainly not going to be the next RL. And the RL is based on comfort, not performance...have you ever even driven one? Horsepower doesn't mean everything, especially to the target audience of the RL.
Yianni, it will NOT be called DNX, trust me on this. DN-X is just short for DualNote Concept, and it's a lousy name anyway. I have no idea WTF to think here, I've always thought the DualNote would be the basis for the next NSX. I still think that. I'm very unsure here, because Elliot pretty much said it would be 4 doors. That is not an NSX. So I'm not saying anything until we get more evidence.
I'm totally confused on this. At any rate, I don't expect this to come out in its current form...either they give the powertrain to the NSX and take styling elements, make a 4 door sedan with an RDX-like system, or do something crazy.
I assume the basis for the powertrain will be the next NSX. I do expect something like an RDX to debut, because a DualNote powertrain in a sedan is virtually impossible unless it's got Porsche seats in the back. XC, it's certainly not going to be the next RL. And the RL is based on comfort, not performance...have you ever even driven one? Horsepower doesn't mean everything, especially to the target audience of the RL.
Yianni, it will NOT be called DNX, trust me on this. DN-X is just short for DualNote Concept, and it's a lousy name anyway. I have no idea WTF to think here, I've always thought the DualNote would be the basis for the next NSX. I still think that. I'm very unsure here, because Elliot pretty much said it would be 4 doors. That is not an NSX. So I'm not saying anything until we get more evidence.
I'm totally confused on this. At any rate, I don't expect this to come out in its current form...either they give the powertrain to the NSX and take styling elements, make a 4 door sedan with an RDX-like system, or do something crazy.
Also, the DN-X is like the RX-8 and such, sports cars that happen to have 4 doors.
But then again I would be so excited to see this in the NSX. If they manage to keep the weight about the same it will have killer 0-60 and 1/4th mile times. If 290hp can get sub 5-sec 0-60 times, imagine what another 100hp and AWD traction can do. mmmmm.
10-03-2002, 11:57 AM
#8
lots and lots of fail
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeetroit
Posts: 23,004
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
But the DN-X is just an abbreviation of the DualNote name. It is different from the CL-X, TL-X, and RS-X. If it wasn't shown overseas as a Honda DualNote, then I'd agree.
The DN-X is not like the RX-8....they're just about opposite. 4 door sport car, yes, but the drivetrain layout and overall mission of the car is opposite.
The DN-X is not like the RX-8....they're just about opposite. 4 door sport car, yes, but the drivetrain layout and overall mission of the car is opposite.
10-10-2002, 03:22 AM
#9
Tastes like DonkeyBalls
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 447
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good point yianni and 02... but I dont see this concept turn production trickling down to their mainstream cars anytime soon. The cost to maintain will be a two extreme points. A Hybrid drivetrain will be more complex, and fewer and fewer garages will be capable or technologically inclined to dabble in something this "exotic".
With motors being used (or will be used) to powering either set of wheels, we have less moving internal parts as with an internal combustion engine.. so one extreme would be maintenence free power... but at the other extreme there is no margin of error.. if that part goes all of it goes and the cost to replace will be high.
The echo, civic hybrid, insight are cars that arent meant to be used like sportscars.. just daily drivers who want to get from point A to point B. A Sportscar hybrid will endure more punishment and that's where the maintanence issue would come from.
Main point is that I think it will be a while before they actually will make a powerful(powerful meaning >250hp but with fuel economy of a scooter...I know I know.. but you get the idea :fawk: ) hybrid car for the masses. This Dual Note eXperiment concept will most likely be used to create a model a notch above the RL.
I hope I dont get flamed for this
With motors being used (or will be used) to powering either set of wheels, we have less moving internal parts as with an internal combustion engine.. so one extreme would be maintenence free power... but at the other extreme there is no margin of error.. if that part goes all of it goes and the cost to replace will be high.
The echo, civic hybrid, insight are cars that arent meant to be used like sportscars.. just daily drivers who want to get from point A to point B. A Sportscar hybrid will endure more punishment and that's where the maintanence issue would come from.
Main point is that I think it will be a while before they actually will make a powerful(powerful meaning >250hp but with fuel economy of a scooter...I know I know.. but you get the idea :fawk: ) hybrid car for the masses. This Dual Note eXperiment concept will most likely be used to create a model a notch above the RL.
I hope I dont get flamed for this
10-10-2002, 09:08 AM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Frisco, Texas
Posts: 2,523
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by moofoo
Good point yianni and 02... but I dont see this concept turn production trickling down to their mainstream cars anytime soon. The cost to maintain will be a two extreme points. A Hybrid drivetrain will be more complex, and fewer and fewer garages will be capable or technologically inclined to dabble in something this "exotic".
With motors being used (or will be used) to powering either set of wheels, we have less moving internal parts as with an internal combustion engine.. so one extreme would be maintenence free power... but at the other extreme there is no margin of error.. if that part goes all of it goes and the cost to replace will be high.
The echo, civic hybrid, insight are cars that arent meant to be used like sportscars.. just daily drivers who want to get from point A to point B. A Sportscar hybrid will endure more punishment and that's where the maintanence issue would come from.
Main point is that I think it will be a while before they actually will make a powerful(powerful meaning >250hp but with fuel economy of a scooter...I know I know.. but you get the idea :fawk: ) hybrid car for the masses. This Dual Note eXperiment concept will most likely be used to create a model a notch above the RL.
I hope I dont get flamed for this
Good point yianni and 02... but I dont see this concept turn production trickling down to their mainstream cars anytime soon. The cost to maintain will be a two extreme points. A Hybrid drivetrain will be more complex, and fewer and fewer garages will be capable or technologically inclined to dabble in something this "exotic".
With motors being used (or will be used) to powering either set of wheels, we have less moving internal parts as with an internal combustion engine.. so one extreme would be maintenence free power... but at the other extreme there is no margin of error.. if that part goes all of it goes and the cost to replace will be high.
The echo, civic hybrid, insight are cars that arent meant to be used like sportscars.. just daily drivers who want to get from point A to point B. A Sportscar hybrid will endure more punishment and that's where the maintanence issue would come from.
Main point is that I think it will be a while before they actually will make a powerful(powerful meaning >250hp but with fuel economy of a scooter...I know I know.. but you get the idea :fawk: ) hybrid car for the masses. This Dual Note eXperiment concept will most likely be used to create a model a notch above the RL.
I hope I dont get flamed for this
And yes, whatever car gets the Dualnotes powertrain, it sure will be 50k+.