Auto-x is hard

[ED9man]

I actually got some legitimate times on this outing! Had I not just barely clipped one cone on my best run, I would've been 8 seconds behind the SM2 class leader in a Mazda Miata, with the cone it was 10. Last time I was DNF all 3 runs and but my best was 11 seconds behind the leader, even though I skipped a gate or two. I have a feeling it's going to take a very long time to get close. I bet next time I will find another second or so just because I'm still getting a feel for it and I know I'm not pushing to what I think is my limit is because it's all still so new and I still get a little lost. But could my car really have 8 seconds left in it? I can't imagine, but I do know the guy who won G-stock in an 88 CRX Si would've been about 3 seconds behind the leader if he ran in SM2, and I think that's bone stock except for Konis, cat-back, and slicks that are 225 in the front! That guy is really good, he's been doing it forever, he said the Koni's make a nice difference. Just out of curiosity what is a full suspension generally worth timewise, probably only a second or two I'm guessing? I'm still having a blast though, it's a lot of fun. Although I wasn't having too much fun on my afternoon runs because 4 hours of sleep finally caught up with me.

Registered and logged-in users don't see this ad! Register your free account today.

[pomansouth]

Originally Posted by ED9man

I actually got some legitimate times on this outing! Had I not just barely clipped one cone on my best run, I would've been 8 seconds behind the SM2 class leader in a Mazda Miata, with the cone it was 10. Last time I was DNF all 3 runs and but my best was 11 seconds behind the leader, even though I skipped a gate or two.

I have a feeling it's going to take a very long time to get close. I bet next time I will find another second or so just because I'm still getting a feel for it and I know I'm not pushing to what I think is my limit is because it's all still so new and I still get a little lost. But could my car really have 8 seconds left in it? I can't imagine, but I do know the guy who won G-stock in an 88 CRX Si would've been about 3 seconds behind the leader if he ran in SM2, and I think that's bone stock except for Konis, cat-back, and slicks that are 225 in the front! That guy is really good, he's been doing it forever, he said the Koni's make a nice difference. Just out of curiosity what is a full suspension generally worth timewise, probably only a second or two I'm guessing?

I'm still having a blast though, it's a lot of fun. Although I wasn't having too much fun on my afternoon runs because 4 hours of sleep finally caught up with me.

do your self the biggest favor you could ever do and get a type r sway bar. You probably have ALOT of time left in the car only permitted by tires and comfort for the most part...

[CivicSiRacer]

Originally Posted by pomansouth

do your self the biggest favor you could ever do and get a type r sway bar. You probably have ALOT of time left in the car only permitted by tires and comfort for the most part...

Ummm no do yourself a big favor and at the next event go get an instructor to help you. 8 seconds is an eternity and a sway bar is not going to help for 8 seconds. Maybe 1 second the most.

Did you walk the course? When you walk the course you should get a sense of where the course goes the 1st walk. 2nd walk start to memorize apex points. 3rd walk look where you need to brake. 4th walk try to put them all together. If you need more walks then so be it.

You should be able to stand at the start line and close your eyes to visually know where each corner, braking point and apex are. Force youself to stick to those lines when you drive your car.

Also definitely get an instructor to ride with you to give you pointers. And even have them drive the car for you to see what your time would be compared to his.

[LER510]

Originally Posted by CivicSiRacer

You should be able to stand at the start line and close your eyes to visually know where each corner, braking point and apex are. Force youself to stick to those lines when you drive your car.

This was my biggest problem when I did the Tour event at Peru last month. Our local courses are fairly short (we usually do parts twice to get 50 second runs or so) and easily learned. The national level course was a whole different story. I walked it 3-4 times each day and was still lost once I got past the first 3 corners, or so. As the results show.

Good advice on getting someone to ride along. Or, better yet, get some old hand to drive your car during a fun run and ride along. Back when I thought I was getting everything I could out of my old Escort, I had one of the elder competitors drive it. Coming from a completely different car (C/P Mustang), he was still 1.5 seconds quicker than I was.

[ED9man]

Originally Posted by CivicSiRacer

Ummm no do yourself a big favor and at the next event go get an instructor to help you. 8 seconds is an eternity and a sway bar is not going to help for 8 seconds. Maybe 1 second the most.

Did you walk the course? When you walk the course you should get a sense of where the course goes the 1st walk. 2nd walk start to memorize apex points. 3rd walk look where you need to brake. 4th walk try to put them all together. If you need more walks then so be it.

You should be able to stand at the start line and close your eyes to visually know where each corner, braking point and apex are. Force youself to stick to those lines when you drive your car.

Also definitely get an instructor to ride with you to give you pointers. And even have them drive the car for you to see what your time would be compared to his.

It's hard to get 3 walks in, I just managed to do it did it last time, but it really helped. Our courses are pretty long. My seat doesn't move so I unless the instructor is really tall like me he can't drive it. I had the novice chief ride with me last time, he actually didn't tell me too much, but maybe I'll find someone else next time. I had a pretty good feel for the course from walking I think, I didn't get lost at all in the morning, but I think I was definently fastest the 3rd run in the morning because I had the best feel for it then althougth I still wasn't 100% sure all the time of what to do next which naturally makes you slower. Any other tips? Maybe I can get a 30 second video next time of me driving, that's all my digi cam takes.

[CivicSiRacer]

ANother thing I recommend to novices is turn on the AC. The AC will suck power away from your car making you drive smoother. Most cars have TOO much power for a novice.

I did that at one school and everyone thought I was nuts. So I timed them without the AC on and then with it on. And they were 2-3 seconds faster

You can walk a course as many times as you want. Just got to get there earlier.

When I attended DC Tour, NE Divisionals, and Nationals I walked the course about 6 times each day. That's 6 miles I walked each day. Yeah I was worn out, but I knew the course like the back of my hand.

[ED9man]

Originally Posted by CivicSiRacer

ANother thing I recommend to novices is turn on the AC. The AC will suck power away from your car making you drive smoother. Most cars have TOO much power for a novice.

I did that at one school and everyone thought I was nuts. So I timed them without the AC on and then with it on. And they were 2-3 seconds faster

You can walk a course as many times as you want. Just got to get there earlier.

When I attended DC Tour, NE Divisionals, and Nationals I walked the course about 6 times each day. That's 6 miles I walked each day. Yeah I was worn out, but I knew the course like the back of my hand.

I tore that shit out a long time ago.

Well I started to walk a couple minutes after it opened and I had just made 3 walks by the time it closed. They don't keep it open too long.

I thought the a/c compressor disengaged when you were WOT?

[pomansouth]

Originally Posted by CivicSiRacer

Ummm no do yourself a big favor and at the next event go get an instructor to help you. 8 seconds is an eternity and a sway bar is not going to help for 8 seconds. Maybe 1 second the most.

Did you walk the course? When you walk the course you should get a sense of where the course goes the 1st walk. 2nd walk start to memorize apex points. 3rd walk look where you need to brake. 4th walk try to put them all together. If you need more walks then so be it.

You should be able to stand at the start line and close your eyes to visually know where each corner, braking point and apex are. Force youself to stick to those lines when you drive your car.

Also definitely get an instructor to ride with you to give you pointers. And even have them drive the car for you to see what your time would be compared to his.

good point..... My sway bar took me from 5-6 seconds behind my buddy to half second from him....instructors are alot of help though....they cant make your car any "better" or "fun"....the man with the biggest axe will have the hottest fire eventually....

[Fujiwara Takumi]

The most I learned at an autoX was riding in Mark McKnight's Miata during a fun run.

After an entire day of push push push and WHY cant I find this time he ran the course and claimed maybe 3-5 seconds over my best time, never really said anything to me the whole time, but it was so easy to see WOW is he faster out of here and WOW does that make him faster for the ENTIRE course. Taught me a lot about consistency and braking, I have a lot of braking issues.

Anyway, after you process that for a week and try again I think you will impress yourself. 8 seconds in an auto x is a lifetime, and you could put a supercharger and race rubber on your car and not make it up by thrashing it, you will just have to learn what youre doing. Until you know really really well what youre doing the go fast parts will probably add confusion.

One of my friends runs a rusted to hell 90 miata with no alignment, no mods, an he drives it to and from work and the events on chicago roads. He consistently beats one particular very good driver with everythign done to the car up to and including a blue printed engine, this type of competition is so driver influenced...and it takes a TON of practice. Just keep going to events and you will learn in no time!

[ED9man]

Last in class this past auto-x. Guy who ran in nationals rode with me though and said I was a good driver though, he told me too keep looking ahead at the next place I was going, not the one right ahead and it helped a lot because I wasn't doing it enough before.

What is suspension and slicks worth usually?

[Fujiwara Takumi]

race rubber is worth 5 seconds depending on the driver. but you have to be good to get the potential without ruining the tires. Im not that good that I can justify it yet. suspension, i dunno, if you cant get it right on your current suspension, unless its really bad, more $$ wont help. What class are you in? what were the times? who did you race and what region?

[CivicSiRacer]

I would hold off on any mods. Maybe just get some Azenis and drive those for a year.

DOT R tires like Fuji says can't really hide your mistakes and make you a worse driver in the long run. You can also destroy a set of expensive ($400-800) DOT R tires at your first autocross if you don't know what you are doing.

You will learn alot quicker on how to be fast and brake harder on street tires. Street tires will squeal and skitter which is what you need as a novice to learn the limits of your car without worrying about killing a nice set of R tires.

Worry about DOT R tires and suspension work til you get at least 10-15 events under your belt. Get some driving schools in first this year or the beginning of next year.

[ED9man]

I have Azenis, fun tires. I don't think there are any driving schools around here, unless I want to drive 4 or 5 hours which I don't. My current suspension is totally stock except bushings, I at least want some koni yellows on stock springs, I think the rear shocks are original. I wish the car didn't understeer so much, next time I'll probably pump the rears up even more. I'm in SM2, NER SCCA in Ayer, MA.

Times were

1 90 Mazda Miata 65.025
2 1994 black mazda miata 65.864
3 96 Mazda Miata 69.144
4 96 Mazda Miata 69.662
5 1989 red honda crx 70.146
6 1997 red mazda miata 73.641
7 80 MG B 73.844
8 88 Mazda RX7 Turbo 74.537
9 (me) 1988 black honda crx si 75.526

This guy with an SM EG who won nationals rode with me and gave me some tips, helped a lot, told me I was turning in too fast which cut the wheels out from under the car, I turned smoother and slower and found more grip, also looking ahead even more than I was helped a bunch. On my last run I know I could have found another second. Unlike the second to last run, my fastest, I forgot to look ahead enough and I messed up in a couple corners which cost me, so I was like a tenth slower than the 75.526 run even though I ran most of it faster. I ran the fastest run pretty well but not as hard as I could've because I was still trying to apply the new advice. He said I was a pretty good driver. One other problem I think I have is I don't always know exactly the best line to take, I just try to turn as little as possible and cut close to the cones. I think I can get within a foot or maybe a little less pretty consistently depending on the corner.

[Fujiwara Takumi]

forget about lines for right now. In autoX "Tight is Right"

Whereas on a track you want to use the whole track to maintain your speed, in autoX you typically want to get off the course with the least amount of track seen. When I started I had a hard time staying tight, and now when im road racing im being told im too tight!

Taking video of yourself will help you learn...

[CivicSiRacer]

Well figure the 1st place guy has his car totally done to the rules and you only have Azenis and bushings. 10 seconds is not too shabby if I might say so.

You can upgrade your shocks just for this year if you need them. Then maybe next year add on Ground Control coilovers to the Konis.

But most of the time you are understeering because you are carrying too much speed into the corner OR like your instructor said not being smooth on your inputs. Typical novice mistake which isn't too hard to fix. Just slow down a bit more before a turn and smoothly turn into the corner.

[ED9man]

Originally Posted by CivicSiRacer

Well figure the 1st place guy has his car totally done to the rules and you only have Azenis and bushings. 10 seconds is not too shabby if I might say so.

You can upgrade your shocks just for this year if you need them. Then maybe next year add on Ground Control coilovers to the Konis.

But most of the time you are understeering because you are carrying too much speed into the corner OR like your instructor said not being smooth on your inputs. Typical novice mistake which isn't too hard to fix. Just slow down a bit more before a turn and smoothly turn into the corner.

well, my LSD helps too.

yeah, the smoothness helps. Well I guess my gripe isn't so much that it understeers a whole lot but that I cannot get the rear loose at all. I would think a little rotation would help no?

And yes the yellows then GCs are exactly my plan.
May not be happening this year though cause I spent way too much on my rear disc swap and I have a couple other things that need to be taken care of first.

Thanks for all the advice. Hopefully I can be an EF master someday too.

You never make your way up to this area do you?

[CivicSiRacer]

I would like ot get up there sometime. A guy locally gets up there once in awhile, Alan Pozner in a Yellow ITR.

It's just too far of a drive for me. Maybe when I'm visiting my family in NYC sometime I might make it up there, but then again I'm with my family so I don't think so.

To get the back end to rotate you need to bias the front to rear pressures by at least 4-8psi.

I'd recommend like 40 front and 35 rear and go from there. If it doesn't rotate drop the rear pressures by 1-2psi increments. If it snaps around on your bring the rear pressures up.

I personally don't like my cars to rotate too much. Had some scary/hairy moments in the pass and it's easier to recover from understeer than oversteer. People who would drive my cars would hate how the cars would push in turns. But for me I'm a late/hard braking type driver, whereas my competitors like the rear to come around a corner.

[ED9man]

I thought you were supposed to overinflate the rears?

[CivicSiRacer]

You can go either way. But making the rears higher than the fronts the car will snap oversteer which is not fun for a novice. And personally I didn't like that setup either. Makes for a handful with stiff springs and a rear sway bar.

[pomansouth]

It depends on your driving style in my opinion. Everyone will say that is it best to have a front wheel drive at neutral or slight understeer but I enjoy being about to have my rear rotate very easily although overall it is less grip, it makes me feel more comfortable that my car can turn its nose in a little quicker and carry it through a turn...