dbman96

Hi all - been a while since I've posted on here, but as an Integra enthusiast I thought this would be a good place to gauge interest. I am currently working as a mechanical engineer for a company in the business of developing electric powered superchargers.

(waits for laughter to subside)

OK, I know Ebay is saturated with "electric superchargers" and it's all a big joke to everyone, but the reality is that this IS possible, if you have realistic expectations and good engineering. We have run these things for years on large turbodiesel engines for the purpose of reducing/eliminating turbo lag and have excellent results; the units have been used in several countries as pollution control devices in urban areas, and fitted on commercial fleets from garbage trucks to urban bus programs (frequent start/stop = high pollution while waiting for the turbo toget up on boost). We've also tested on small displacement engines and based on our old-technology compressors (much lower flow capacity than the units I'm working on now) we could make a 1.6L engine meet or exceed the performance of an equivalent 1.8L engine, with no sacrifices and better fuel economy. Additionally, I can tell you that just about EVERY turbocharger manufacturer is working on similar projects to create a workable electric assisted turbocharger. This is a very hot topic in automotive engineering right now, not just on Ebay!

I've also heard all the arguments - it takes too much power, the load will "bog" down the alternator, etc. Reality: the battery can provide enough power to operate a LARGE electric motor for 10-15 seconds, no problem. If high loads "bog" your alternator enough that you can feel it, you need to get your alternator checked. Once the current draw exceeds your alternator capacity, the battery takes over, and when the motor is switched off, the alternator recharges the battery at its leisure. An electric supercharger consumes about 50-75% as much power as your starter motor, and the starter motor does its job without the assistance of the alternator.

Like I said, you need to have realistic expectations. You will NOT increase peak HP or torque with an electric supercharger. Peak HP comes at or near redline, when your engine is consuming so much air that it would take a HUGE amount of power to compress it significantly. However, if the supercharger is optimized to create boost at low-mid RPM range, we believe it is possible to increase torque and HP in the 1000-4500 RPM range anywhere from 20-35% depending on the application. From 4500 RPM on up, the boost would taper off gradually to a 0% increase near redline. This is all projected for an engine from 1.6 to 2.0 liters in displacement. I'm bench testing these compressors right now, so I know for a fact the flow and boost is attainable, and I'm working on an integra install right now so we should be dyno testing in the next couple of weeks.

The question is, would people be interested? My logic goes something like this: Most people in this hobby don't think twice about buying the typical I/H/E for anywhere from $500-1200 all together, and realistically gain very little torque, and perhaps 5-10 hp if they're lucky, by shifting the torque peak up a few hundred RPM. The next step is something like the JRSC or a turbo, where you'll usually spend $3000+ when all is said and done. What I'm proposing is a solution that can safely provide about 4.5 psi boost at low engine speeds, providing a torque curve very much like the JRSC up around 4500 RPM, and then blending off into the natural HP peak of the engine. For engines that are notoriously "peaky" like the Si, GSR/Type R, or the Toyota 2ZZ-GE (Celica/Matrix) I tend to think this would be very useful "low risk" solution for a daily-driven car, and installation should be a 1-2 hour job at most. We also would expect to seek CARB exemption (which we have previously attained for these superchargers in Diesel applications).

Now I'm just looking for feedback from enthusiasts like myself. My viewpoint is a little skewed since I've been in love with high-revving engines for years, and my current daily driver is a '96 GSR with a B20/GSR turbo engine so I'm pretty well adjusted to making my power at high revs (although the B20 block does make the engine feel a lot happier down in the 3000 RPM range). Incidentally, I will also be pursuing applications of this same supercharger as a means to overcome any lag present in turbocharged setups.

I would just like to hear the viewpoint of others - is this a product you think you / your mom / other enthusiasts / the general public / kids with green tinted windows and huge spoilers / etc. would actually find useful? Please let me know - discuss in this thread or email me: dmanning@boostingsystems.com

Thanks for taking the time to read my mini-novel here.

nightshocker

more information here:

http://www.homemadeturbo.com/blow.html

:fawk: :fawk: :fawk:

dbman96

Thanks for that constructive comment. I've seen all the bilge blowers. This isn't one of them.

MrFatbooty

Thank you very much for the intelligent post, it's nice to see people with some brains posting around here every once in a while.

Assorted thoughts of mine/requests for more info:

At high RPM are you going to just switch the blower off? The motor would be creating a lot of vacuum but wouldn't a non-powered impeller in the intake tract spoil the flow?

Another idea you might try is to tap into the TPS and turn on the blower once you get to a certain throttle angle. That way when the car is just cruising the blower can coast but as soon as the driver gasses it the blower kicks back on to either provide boost or remove the restriction depending on RPM.

JGordon

What kind of a price range would this be in?
If it works well (Dyno sheets :thumbup: ), it would definitely be something I would take a look at.
Would it cause any sort of battery drain? Say, if you had just made a hardcore acceleration run before you parked and hadn't given the alternator a chance to recharge the battery? It gets moderately cold here during the winter, and I got stranded at work back in December when my battery died...

dbman96

Hehe... everyone has the same concern about intake restriction - I should have included that the compressor will be completely bypassed when it is either switched off or the compressor is incapable of flowing more than atmospheric pressure (like at high engine revs). In this state it will present no intake restriction.

As far as activation goes, we've considered several schemes - one I'm toying with is triggering it from the MAP sensor whenever vacuum drops below a certain level (probably 5" or a little less) so the unit will be triggered whenever the driver is accelerating significantly, even at partial throttle. I've done TPS triggered setups and I'm thinking the MAP actuation will be more linear as it will be triggered by load rather than having to put your foot all the way to the floor to activate the device. WOT activation also usually triggers a kickdown in automatic transmissions, which tends to make drivers feel like the engine is still working too hard to make the power. Another possibility is to trigger it based on the rate of change in TPS position, to sense desire to accelerate quickly, but I think MAP load is a more accurate way to sense the actual operating condition of the engine and the need for additional power.

MrFatbooty

OK, the bypass was that little bit of added info that makes this make more sense to me.

Are you saying that you would only have the blower activated when the MAP is reading between 0 and 170 mBar or from 170 mBar on up?

silvagsr

Ok... I got it, since your product is trying to enter, essentially the market that Im in... how bout a free demo sent to me in the mail? I will install the product up to the manufacturer's specs and then give you a totally neutral review of your product.

silvagsr

And if wanted Ill also get you some results from a LS Teg and RSX-S.

dbman96

Freeloaders! Actually two of our mechanical engineers drive integras so those will be our first dyno test mules (1993 LS automatic and 96 GSR Turbo)... when we start having significant numbers of these available for testing we might be seeking additional test cars.