Turbo project on 2001 Accord ULEV
08-07-2004, 04:57 AM
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Turbo project on 2001 Accord ULEV
I would like to share my experience add a turbo on 2001 Accord ULEV to help other avoid what I had faced.
Vehicle: 2001 Accord ULEV 4 cyl.
March 2004.
Install dual taps exhaust, 3 inch pipe, resonator. at
Performance Exhaust, Fremont, CA
Cost $500
Result:
Extremely noisy, ask Performance Exhaust to replace
a more quite Exhaust.
Additional $80. Help a little.
Apr 2004
Order FMAX kit + turbo timer at BOZZ Performance
Cost $4500
May 2004
Have Bozz Performance install the kit.
10 day later, I was ask to pick up the car, it run like
shit, engine keep dying, black smoke all around. Being told: Have reduced boost to save the engine. It's normal
a turbo car run rich. Need to bring the car to a tunner.
After tune it will work fine. Still have to pay in full
to take the car to tunner. -- PAID in full.
Cost: car rental $500
Refer to Speed Image. next day.
After checking a while and switching some of the hose
connected to the wastegate, and jet up the idle speed.
Was being told: Since its a ULEV, there is no way the
turbo will work, need a new ECU to make it work.
Will cost another $1900.
No way, bring the car the ATP turbo do a dyno test
Cost: $50
Result: Too rich at idle and Too lean at boost
Readjust the idle to normal
Searching the net identify missing link problem.
Try to find Bozz performance, they move to unknown
location.
Back to SpeedImage, they got some replica of
missing link. Told: the new style of missing link
have design problem. replace the missing link,
no more black smoke, well it works.
Idle rich problem solve.
Cost: $40
Make appointment to check for boost lean problem.
...
Checking the boost lean problem.
2 day later, told defective turbo need to get replacement
from turbonetic may need up to couple months. But I
can still drive the car home.
PAID diagnostic fee: $350
Car rental: $100
While driving, white smoke all around just after leaving
the shop. and get back there. Told its normal
with a broken turbo, but you can still drive the car.
Left the car at the shop and rental another car again.
4 day later call and check with Speed Image the car still
in the shop and the turbo have not send back to
turbonetic cause never get through the phone to obtain
RMA number.
Unbelievable, tow the car back home.
Check on the installation. Manifold vaccum hose
connected to the lower hole on the wastegate
while compressor house connected to the upper hole
of wastegate.
Searching the net... Oh god! That kind of connection
will create unlimited boost until something break.
It tell why the turbo broken.
Call SpeedImage about the issue. Reply he have
more than 10 years of experience and the connection
is totally correct. Its just a defective part, not his
problem.
Search the net, white smoke probably a blowup
engine and need to replace head gasket.
Cost $1000
Checking the new style missing link, found
the guy install was something.....
There is a filter come with the new missing
link, he put it between the map sensor and
the check valve. What a smart step...
it just make a big gap and the map sensor
will never sense the vaccume while idle.
Thats tell the idle rich issue. The filter
was suppose to be put in the hole on the
outside of the missing link, not between the
MAP and the check valve.
(Skilled installer.....Design issue....10 year of experience??????)
Order a new T3/T4 turbo from ebay. Cost $410
Couple day later. Got the new turbo and try
to install it. Housing size not fit. Try to resell
it on ebay for $200, the vendor lower their price
to $200 right the way..... Forget it, just another
pises of junk.
Send the turbo to Arizoner to rebuild.
Cost: $400 rebuild Shipping $80
Result, they put the same bearing house as
what I got from the ebay just using the old
compressor house and exhuast housing. ...
with new paint
I was a idiot.....
Install the (new) turbo and connect the
hose from manifold vaccum to low hole
of wastegate. Yes, the turbo finally work.
Return the rental car, cost: $1000
Do the dyno, yes 235HP, that what I needed.
Milage, 19mpg highway. Check engine light
come on. Surging at all speed. Smell of gas
all the time.
Bring the car to a garage. Charge $30 to connect
to their computer for diagnostic.
(I am a idiot, autozone have it for free)
Catalytic convertor efficient below boundary.
Possible the white smoke kill the convertor.
Reply the convertor with 3 inch one.
OBD II cost $400
Check engine still on. Possibly O2 sensor
problem. Order universal O2 sensor for
2001 Accord at $100. Check engine still on
even worst. ULEV need different type
of O2 sensor which cost $415 at Kragen.
The smell of gas push me to redo the fuel
injecto installation, but problem still there.
Surging is the cause of the check engine light.
While idle, the engine keep surging.
Check with the MF2 setting. The extra 2 fuel
injector was set to work at vaccum and boost.
What a experience tunner ( to cure the boost
lean problem just add more fuel even in idle )
Readjust the kick in pressure to a little over 0 lb.
No more smell of gas at idle. but engine still
surging at idle. (Thinking of way to balance
the boost and idle, when the car in idle, it
suppose to reduce the amount of fuel, but the
loop back of turbocharge air giving different
pressure to the stock MAP sensor cause the
engine surging between 1K to 2K rpm.
To solve that problem, try connect boost pressure
from compressor housing to lower hole on the
blow off valve while another hose connect from the
manifold vaccum to the upper hole on the blow off valve. Test drive and problem still there
except the boost can only up to 5 lb. To avoid
the fluctuation of pressure inside the intake pipe.
It should either be zero pressure or full 8 lb pressure.
Since the zero pressure can't solve the idle problem.
The other way is to use the blow off valve to control
the intake pressure to 8 lb. In that way, minor
speed different on the turbo will not affect the pressure
inside the intake pipe.
To achieve that, remove the hose from the upper of
the blow off valve and set the pressure to 8 lb.
Everthing work fine. No more surging, no more
smell of gas, no more turbo problem, 240HP,
34 mpg highway mileage. (Stock 29 ULEV)
For those want to add turbo. Please do more research
on the net before you let anyone install it for you. Or
it will cost you unlimited of time and money.
Vehicle: 2001 Accord ULEV 4 cyl.
March 2004.
Install dual taps exhaust, 3 inch pipe, resonator. at
Performance Exhaust, Fremont, CA
Cost $500
Result:
Extremely noisy, ask Performance Exhaust to replace
a more quite Exhaust.
Additional $80. Help a little.
Apr 2004
Order FMAX kit + turbo timer at BOZZ Performance
Cost $4500
May 2004
Have Bozz Performance install the kit.
10 day later, I was ask to pick up the car, it run like
shit, engine keep dying, black smoke all around. Being told: Have reduced boost to save the engine. It's normal
a turbo car run rich. Need to bring the car to a tunner.
After tune it will work fine. Still have to pay in full
to take the car to tunner. -- PAID in full.
Cost: car rental $500
Refer to Speed Image. next day.
After checking a while and switching some of the hose
connected to the wastegate, and jet up the idle speed.
Was being told: Since its a ULEV, there is no way the
turbo will work, need a new ECU to make it work.
Will cost another $1900.
No way, bring the car the ATP turbo do a dyno test
Cost: $50
Result: Too rich at idle and Too lean at boost
Readjust the idle to normal
Searching the net identify missing link problem.
Try to find Bozz performance, they move to unknown
location.
Back to SpeedImage, they got some replica of
missing link. Told: the new style of missing link
have design problem. replace the missing link,
no more black smoke, well it works.
Idle rich problem solve.
Cost: $40
Make appointment to check for boost lean problem.
...
Checking the boost lean problem.
2 day later, told defective turbo need to get replacement
from turbonetic may need up to couple months. But I
can still drive the car home.
PAID diagnostic fee: $350
Car rental: $100
While driving, white smoke all around just after leaving
the shop. and get back there. Told its normal
with a broken turbo, but you can still drive the car.
Left the car at the shop and rental another car again.
4 day later call and check with Speed Image the car still
in the shop and the turbo have not send back to
turbonetic cause never get through the phone to obtain
RMA number.
Unbelievable, tow the car back home.
Check on the installation. Manifold vaccum hose
connected to the lower hole on the wastegate
while compressor house connected to the upper hole
of wastegate.
Searching the net... Oh god! That kind of connection
will create unlimited boost until something break.
It tell why the turbo broken.
Call SpeedImage about the issue. Reply he have
more than 10 years of experience and the connection
is totally correct. Its just a defective part, not his
problem.
Search the net, white smoke probably a blowup
engine and need to replace head gasket.
Cost $1000
Checking the new style missing link, found
the guy install was something.....
There is a filter come with the new missing
link, he put it between the map sensor and
the check valve. What a smart step...
it just make a big gap and the map sensor
will never sense the vaccume while idle.
Thats tell the idle rich issue. The filter
was suppose to be put in the hole on the
outside of the missing link, not between the
MAP and the check valve.
(Skilled installer.....Design issue....10 year of experience??????)
Order a new T3/T4 turbo from ebay. Cost $410
Couple day later. Got the new turbo and try
to install it. Housing size not fit. Try to resell
it on ebay for $200, the vendor lower their price
to $200 right the way..... Forget it, just another
pises of junk.
Send the turbo to Arizoner to rebuild.
Cost: $400 rebuild Shipping $80
Result, they put the same bearing house as
what I got from the ebay just using the old
compressor house and exhuast housing. ...
with new paint
I was a idiot.....
Install the (new) turbo and connect the
hose from manifold vaccum to low hole
of wastegate. Yes, the turbo finally work.
Return the rental car, cost: $1000
Do the dyno, yes 235HP, that what I needed.
Milage, 19mpg highway. Check engine light
come on. Surging at all speed. Smell of gas
all the time.
Bring the car to a garage. Charge $30 to connect
to their computer for diagnostic.
(I am a idiot, autozone have it for free)
Catalytic convertor efficient below boundary.
Possible the white smoke kill the convertor.
Reply the convertor with 3 inch one.
OBD II cost $400
Check engine still on. Possibly O2 sensor
problem. Order universal O2 sensor for
2001 Accord at $100. Check engine still on
even worst. ULEV need different type
of O2 sensor which cost $415 at Kragen.
The smell of gas push me to redo the fuel
injecto installation, but problem still there.
Surging is the cause of the check engine light.
While idle, the engine keep surging.
Check with the MF2 setting. The extra 2 fuel
injector was set to work at vaccum and boost.
What a experience tunner ( to cure the boost
lean problem just add more fuel even in idle )
Readjust the kick in pressure to a little over 0 lb.
No more smell of gas at idle. but engine still
surging at idle. (Thinking of way to balance
the boost and idle, when the car in idle, it
suppose to reduce the amount of fuel, but the
loop back of turbocharge air giving different
pressure to the stock MAP sensor cause the
engine surging between 1K to 2K rpm.
To solve that problem, try connect boost pressure
from compressor housing to lower hole on the
blow off valve while another hose connect from the
manifold vaccum to the upper hole on the blow off valve. Test drive and problem still there
except the boost can only up to 5 lb. To avoid
the fluctuation of pressure inside the intake pipe.
It should either be zero pressure or full 8 lb pressure.
Since the zero pressure can't solve the idle problem.
The other way is to use the blow off valve to control
the intake pressure to 8 lb. In that way, minor
speed different on the turbo will not affect the pressure
inside the intake pipe.
To achieve that, remove the hose from the upper of
the blow off valve and set the pressure to 8 lb.
Everthing work fine. No more surging, no more
smell of gas, no more turbo problem, 240HP,
34 mpg highway mileage. (Stock 29 ULEV)
For those want to add turbo. Please do more research
on the net before you let anyone install it for you. Or
it will cost you unlimited of time and money.
08-07-2004, 05:10 AM
#2
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Wow man, sorry to hear about the inconvenience and even worse the 12k worth of work all for nothing. Good story though for all of those who are prematurely thinking about turbo though. Thanks for sharing man.
08-07-2004, 11:12 AM
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That's an amazing story, but I can't help but think that several thousands of dollars would've been saved with a proper installer who'll actually tune their install.
08-07-2004, 12:01 PM
#5
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If it were me, I'd be in small claims court with the original installer. I don't care if the parts are aftermarket. If you won't stand behind your work, you shouldn't be in business. I would devote my time to trying to take him out of business...
08-08-2004, 08:42 AM
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Thanks for the advice. It's always better to do extensive research on the front-end of a project, rather than just throwing money at a problem. I couldn't throw much, so I have to get things right the first time when I do a mod.
It's cool to have a turbo Accord, but in my mind I keep thinking about what $12k + an '01 Accord trade-in would buy. That's just me though.
It's cool to have a turbo Accord, but in my mind I keep thinking about what $12k + an '01 Accord trade-in would buy. That's just me though.
08-10-2004, 09:23 AM
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dood are you farking kidding me?
why didn't you ask me!!?? i could have saved you like...million bucks!
https://www.honda-acura.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=68513
seriously...i searched about turbo for like 6 months before i put that on...also, shops will dick you over and you won't know that anything's properly installed *unless* you do it yourself.
why didn't you ask me!!?? i could have saved you like...million bucks!
https://www.honda-acura.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=68513
seriously...i searched about turbo for like 6 months before i put that on...also, shops will dick you over and you won't know that anything's properly installed *unless* you do it yourself.