F22b

[clowN]

im thinking about getting a F22B for my prelude

because i dont have enough money to dish out for an h22a

but anyways, i was wondering, if i can get the f22B performance, by modifying the F22A block? like changine heads, and what not?

also, is the F22B a good engine to fix up for the lowest price costing me about 750$ for it

[jdmitr]

my suggestion is to just save up and get either the H22 or the F20. Well worth the money because DOHC heads always have the potential to make more horsepower. If you just want to swap heads, that's fine but it may end up costing you about the same because you're gonna have to buy the head, get it machined evenly at a machine shop, buy a new head gasket (coolant, brake cleaner, engine oil and filter, silicon, etc..), and the labor to do the installation correctly. It all adds up unless you're a mechanic and know how to do the labor portion. On top of that, you need a different ECU and possibly some additional sensors (Maybe. I'm not too sure.)

[BigLew]

my suggestion is to just save up and get either the H22 or the F20. Well worth the money because DOHC heads always have the potential to make more horsepower.

F22B is a DOHC engine. F22B is basically and H23A1 with a smaller bore, you can do anything to it you could with an H23A1. Since the F22B does not have FRM sleeves it has a stronger bottom end.

[NoShoAccord]

From what I have read, it seems like the F22B performs better than the H23 even though the F22B has the same HP but less torque.

F22B seems like a great idea if you want a low mileage replacement for an h23 engine.

[ludeboom]

where are all these expensive h22's i keep hearing about.
i bought my longblock h22a1 (rare) for about 1200
i see these things all day on ebay
about 1300 for a h22a longblock free shipping
or
around 2000-2200 for a h22a swap.
id much rather have 200 HP instead of 160.

and if you think you've got it bad with a H series motor or swap...
why not check out what the B guys are paying for b18c's and b16a's

~boom

[NoShoAccord]

where are all these expensive h22's i keep hearing about.
i bought my longblock h22a1 (rare) for about 1200
i see these things all day on ebay
about 1300 for a h22a longblock free shipping
or
around 2000-2200 for a h22a swap.
id much rather have 200 HP instead of 160.

and if you think you've got it bad with a H series motor or swap...
why not check out what the B guys are paying for b18c's and b16a's

~boom

Very true.

I paid $1550 picked up (came with a new water pump, timing belt, and cam seals) for my H22 swap. After rebuilding it (seals, oil pump, valve cover gasket, clutch and resurfacing flywheel) cost me a little over $1900 for the swap and all the replacement parts.

I guess it all depends on your budget. It is worth paying a little more for the H22.

[ludeboom]

Very true.

I paid $1550 picked up (came with a new water pump, timing belt, and cam seals) for my H22 swap. After rebuilding it (seals, oil pump, valve cover gasket, clutch and resurfacing flywheel) cost me a little over $1900 for the swap and all the replacement parts.

I guess it all depends on your budget. It is worth paying a little more for the H22.

damn right its worth it when your outreving 9/10 ricers and beating all of them with a stock h22a

~boom

[BigLew]

where are all these expensive h22's i keep hearing about.
i bought my longblock h22a1 (rare) for about 1200
i see these things all day on ebay
about 1300 for a h22a longblock free shipping
or
around 2000-2200 for a h22a swap.
id much rather have 200 HP instead of 160.

and if you think you've got it bad with a H series motor or swap...
why not check out what the B guys are paying for b18c's and b16a's

~boom

People who know about them, like F22B's for boost because they don't have FRM sleeves. That is realy the only advantage over boosting an H23 the savings cost in having to resleeve because of FRM.

[ludeboom]

People who know about them, like F22B's for boost because they don't have FRM sleeves. That is realy the only advantage over boosting an H23 the savings cost in having to resleeve because of FRM.

anyone who has swapped an H22a knows about the FRM situation.
there are stock block turbo h22a's making good power with FRM.
i am not making a case for or against the f22b because i have no experience with it.
i do know that the h22a head is unbeatable and turbo loves VTEC lift. i doubt the f22b could support higher boost settings over the h22a. the FRM long term oil consumption problem is the only drawback of the h22a or turbo h22a.

~boom

[BigLew]

anyone who has swapped an H22a knows about the FRM situation.
there are stock block turbo h22a's making good power with FRM.
i am not making a case for or against the f22b because i have no experience with it.
i do know that the h22a head is unbeatable and turbo loves VTEC lift. i doubt the f22b could support higher boost settings over the h22a. the FRM long term oil consumption problem is the only drawback of the h22a or turbo h22a.

~boom

You say you don't know anything about it yet you say you doubt it could support higher boost? How about lower compression for starters, and how about the fact the reason people resleeve when the boost H22As for higher boost is because they use aftermarket forged pistons, which is commonly known to screw up FRM sleeves. Draw back of FRM has nothing to do with oil consumption problems.

[ludeboom]

You say you don't know anything about it yet you say you doubt it could support higher boost? How about lower compression for starters, and how about the fact the reason people resleeve when the boost H22As for higher boost is because they use aftermarket forged pistons, which is commonly known to screw up FRM sleeves. Draw back of FRM has nothing to do with oil consumption problems.

yes it does
FRM can cause serious oil consumption problems down the road.
i think this is more of an issue compared to blowing a ring land, or the actual FRM sleeve.

YOU said a f22b was basically a h23a1 internal wise...meaning it cant support more boost than an h22a. since h22a and h23a1 have similiar internals.
the only difference like you said is "the FRM lining" and the bore
so you base your f22b argument around the FRM?


like i said, there are several stock block FRM h22a turbos making excellent power.

you also forget that i stated "stock"
if you want to talk about building a motor for turbo...then the h22a will whoop the f22b, psi for psi any day of the week.

h22a = higher revs, more lift in vtec, better balanced assembly.
better engine overall

also...NEWSFLASH, the rods/pistons, are the main weak point for these engines when dealing with max safe boost level...
NOT FRM

~boom

[Rezza]

lets see...as far as an engine swap goes, I would save up your money and go for an H22, it really is worth it. When I blew my h23, the guys I was ordering through suggested I go for the f22b, since it was a direct replacement for the h23, and slightly less than the h22. But since I'm stubborn, I went ahead and paid 1500 shipped for an h22, and used my h23 tranny.
BigLew, your saying that since the F22 doesnt have FRM, it has a stronger bottom end...yet, if you had your choice, you'd boost an h23 over the f22, right? Well, all that aside, I think what boomer is trying to convey to you is this...Pound for pound, a boosted H22 will whoop a boosted F22 or H23 anyday...not about reliabilty issues or anything else, but simply that the H22 is a faster boosted engine. (boom, correct me if i misunderstood you )

[BigLew]

yes it does
FRM can cause serious oil consumption problems down the road.
i think this is more of an issue compared to blowing a ring land, or the actual FRM sleeve.

YOU said a f22b was basically a h23a1 internal wise...meaning it cant support more boost than an h22a. since h22a and h23a1 have similiar internals.
the only difference like you said is "the FRM lining" and the bore
so you base your f22b argument around the FRM?

Man are you a total noob or what? I have respect for most of the things I have seen you post in this forum but you are totally clueless as to what you are talking avout here. The oil consumption has NOTHING TO DO WITH FRM. H pistons are notorious for weak ringlands that is reason for oil consumption not the sleeves.

F22B Has a steel bore. People who run high boost succesfully on H series get aftermarket sleeves and forged pistons to withstand higher boost. The after market sleeves are for the forged pistons. Since F22B has a steel bore there is not the need to replace with aftermarket sleeves. Have you ever seen what aftermarket forged pistons do to FRM sleeves??? Obviouslt not or we wouldn't be having this conversation.

like i said, there are several stock block FRM h22a turbos making excellent power.

you also forget that i stated "stock"
if you want to talk about building a motor for turbo...then the h22a will whoop the f22b, psi for psi any day of the week.

I never said that the H22A will not make more power at the same boost. But it is a fact that stock H22A's will not hold more than 6 psi for very long. It is well known with anyone who doesn't have thier head up thier ass about forced induction that lower compression engines make for better boost. Why? Because there is less chance for detonation.

h22a = higher revs, more lift in vtec, better balanced assembly.
better engine overall

I also never said H22A is not a better engine, I have 2 H22s.

also...NEWSFLASH, the rods/pistons, are the main weak point for these engines when dealing with max safe boost level NOT FRM

NEWSFLASH replaceing with forged pistons jacks up FRM sleeves, so YES FRM.

[BigLew]

lets see...as far as an engine swap goes, I would save up your money and go for an H22, it really is worth it. When I blew my h23, the guys I was ordering through suggested I go for the f22b, since it was a direct replacement for the h23, and slightly less than the h22. But since I'm stubborn, I went ahead and paid 1500 shipped for an h22, and used my h23 tranny.
BigLew, your saying that since the F22 doesnt have FRM, it has a stronger bottom end...yet, if you had your choice, you'd boost an h23 over the f22, right? Well, all that aside, I think what boomer is trying to convey to you is this...Pound for pound, a boosted H22 will whoop a boosted F22 or H23 anyday...not about reliabilty issues or anything else, but simply that the H22 is a faster boosted engine. (boom, correct me if i misunderstood you )

Again I NEVER SAID H22 WAS NOT BETTER I HAVE 2. I was stating facts about boosting and weaknesses of the engines PERIOD. And given the choice I would rather boost an F22B, I would rather not pay $1400 to sleeve an H23. For the record I have an H22A under build process for JRSC, for 4th gen Prelude which I plan to run at 10 psi and YES I AM SLEEVING.

[ludeboom]

the f22b does not necessarily have a stronger bottom end simply because it doesnt implement FRM.
the stock rods and pistons should be a concern

yes forged pistons will destroy the FRM liners. however in that respect we are talking about a built motor since you are changing pistons. and why would you only change the pistons? you wouldnt, you would do rods/pistons/sleeves.

so yes you are saying that the only advantage of the f22b is the cylinder walls. i can agree with that. but that doesnt necessarily mean the engine can handle more boost than an h22a, because the f22b internals are no better than h22a internals. that is my argument.

and there are *stock* h22a's running over 6psi reliably.

~boom

[BigLew]

yes forged pistons will destroy the FRM liners. however in that respect we are talking about a built motor since you are changing pistons. and why would you only change the pistons? you wouldnt, you would do rods/pistons/sleeves.
~boom

If you already have steel sleeves then there is no reason to change sleeves, just rods/pistons.

You are still wrong about H22 being able to "handle" more boost, it's a FACT boost is easier on lower compression. As far as which one makes more power, of course the H22 does I never argued that. Just cause it is the most powerful does not mean it is the most sturdy.

As far whomoever you know that run stock ludes over 6 psi daily, I know one guy that lasted a year on stock H22 before his ringlands went every other account I have ever heard have problems sooner. All those guys have heard of others running over 6 daily reliably too until thier ringlands went.

[ludeboom]

If you already have steel sleeves then there is no reason to change sleeves, just rods/pistons.

You are still wrong about H22 being able to "handle" more boost, it's a FACT boost is easier on lower compression. As far as which one makes more power, of course the H22 does I never argued that. Just cause it is the most powerful does not mean it is the most sturdy.

corky bell says that lowering compression is for pussies.

u realize that a low compression block with the same boost level as a high compression block, holding both displacements even...the high compression block will make more power.

when i stated rods/pistons/sleeves i was referencing the h22a motor.
i think it has been posted several time's now that the f22b has steel cylinder lining.

as far as sturdy. i guess u dont think 8500-9000 on stock block is sturdy huh. of course i wouldnt trust my h22a head to handle that RPM, but we are talking about blocks.

~boom

[BigLew]

corky bell says that lowering compression is for pussies.

u realize that a low compression block with the same boost level as a high compression block, holding both displacements even...the high compression block will make more power.

Reading comprehension big fat ZERO.

As far as which one makes more power, of course the H22 does I never argued that.

when i stated rods/pistons/sleeves i was referencing the h22a motor.
i think it has been posted several time's now that the f22b has steel cylinder lining.

Well you didn't clarify that in your post now did you?

the f22b does not necessarily have a stronger bottom end simply because it doesnt implement FRM.
the stock rods and pistons should be a concern
yes forged pistons will destroy the FRM liners. however in that respect we are talking about a built motor since you are changing pistons. and why would you only change the pistons? you wouldnt, you would do rods/pistons/sleeves.

As you can see you said in a built motor you change rods/pistons/sleeves without mentioning the H22A and this rebuttal was in to my statement of why you do not need to change sleeves on the F22B.

as far as sturdy. i guess u dont think 8500-9000 on stock block is sturdy huh. of course i wouldnt trust my h22a head to handle that RPM, but we are talking about blocks.

You are completely changing the topic now, we were first talking about the cylinders being able to handle forged internals for higher boost and now you are talking about revving limitations which is crank strength. Which you wouldn't care about on a boosted engine anyway.

[ludeboom]

Reading comprehension big fat ZERO.


Well you didn't clarify that in your post now did you?As you can see you said in a built motor you change rods/pistons/sleeves without mentioning the H22A and this rebuttal was in to my statement of why you do not need to change sleeves on the F22B.

You are completely changing the topic now, we were first talking about the cylinders being able to handle forged internals for higher boost and now you are talking about revving limitations which is crank strength. Which you wouldn't care about on a boosted engine anyway.

1. - how many times are you gonna say that the f22b has steel lining

2. - im not changing the topic you said it wasnt sturdy bitch. I think its pretty obivous that rods/pistons/sleeves categorize a block build for the h22a, and subtract the sleeves for the f22b. how much more are you going to repeat yourself about this stuff guy?

3. - reving limitations are more likely to be based on the head, since that is what will break first. i mentioned that before, but now your talking about "crank strength" which doesnt mean much about longevity of the block in general. i spun a rod bearing on my h23a1, not a main bearing, and the crank was only a little chewed. it may have been a flawed crank but it made it to 150k.

[BigLew]

1. - how many times are you gonna say that the f22b has steel lining

Hey asswipe how many times are you gonna say absolutely dumb misinformed bullshit based completely on bench racing.

2. - im not changing the topic you said it wasnt sturdy bitch. I think its pretty obivous that rods/pistons/sleeves categorize a block build for the h22a, and subtract the sleeves for the f22b. how much more are you going to repeat yourself about this stuff guy?

Again, you need learn how to READ, go back and read my very first post I specifically stated I was talking about FRM sleeves. Read it over and over until you get it and if that doesn't help go get hooked on phonics. As far as me being a bitch, that's not what your mom said. You little punk know nothing ricer. OOH look your not the only one that can flame.

3. - reving limitations are more likely to be based on the head, since that is what will break first. i mentioned that before, but now your talking about "crank strength" which doesnt mean much about longevity of the block in general. i spun a rod bearing on my h23a1, not a main bearing, and the crank was only a little chewed. it may have been a flawed crank but it made it to 150k.

So you are discounting the crank then huh? So what are you talking about then? The strength of the bare block? The bare blocks of an H23 and H22 are the exact same numnuts.

[ludeboom]

Hey asswipe how many times are you gonna say absolutely dumb misinformed bullshit based completely on bench racing.
Again, you need learn how to READ, go back and read my very first post I specifically stated I was talking about FRM sleeves. Read it over and over until you get it and if that doesn't help go get hooked on phonics. As far as me being a bitch, that's not what your mom said. You little punk know nothing ricer. OOH look your not the only one that can flame.

So you are discounting the crank then huh? So what are you talking about then? The strength of the bare block? The bare blocks of an H23 and H22 are the exact same numnuts.

well if im a "little punk know nothing ricer"
then obviously i couldnt have built my own h22a1 from a bare block and had it last until now without any internal problems (58,493).

yes i am discounting the crank. the rod bearings are the only thing you would have to worry about IMO. the mains on the h23a1 are fine. the h22a is better balanced. and like i said before i havent built a f22b motor so im not gonna swear to anything on that crank, but if you say its from an h23a1 then i guess that makes me right anyway huh.

im still having trouble understanding what exactly you are arguing with yourself about here. everyone here including myself knows all the "facts", and there really is no argument. what you are claiming is meaningless and obviously ego driven.

a perfect example is the 4th gen ABS thread, u decide to split hairs with me over how to change brake pads. i built my motor from a bare block what the **** do i care about your method of changing brake pads.

i hold you personally responsible for the downfall of these 2 threads.
notice how everyone stopped posting now

~boom

[Rezza]

Nobody likes you Lew...You've been humiliated on a webforum...You might as well go kill yourself now...

[clowN]

Alright guys, well Ludeboom, pretty much convinced me into getting a h22a,

now.. when i buy a h22a, online, is it most likely to need repair? if so, how much of repairs? how much money are we talking here?

also, can a H22A Type-S head, be put on a H22A to give it the extra 20HP the Type S has? or would i need other crap?!

[BigLew]

well if im a "little punk know nothing ricer"
then obviously i couldnt have built my own h22a1 from a bare block and had it last until now without any internal problems (58,493).

You've done that to "hold boost" as you've been preaching the whole time?

yes i am discounting the crank. the rod bearings are the only thing you would have to worry about IMO. the mains on the h23a1 are fine. the h22a is better balanced. and like i said before i havent built a f22b motor so im not gonna swear to anything on that crank, but if you say its from an h23a1 then i guess that makes me right anyway huh.

No it's you that's arguing with yourself, you keep on bringing up items that I was never arguing about and this a perfect example. Also as far as you opinion goes since we are on the subject. The crank itself is weaker not just rod bearings in the H23A1. People have been know no bust cranks under high RPMs in H22/23 frankensteins.

im still having trouble understanding what exactly you are arguing with yourself about here. everyone here including myself knows all the "facts", and there really is no argument. what you are claiming is meaningless and obviously ego driven.

Please, you wanna talk about ego? You obviously think that having a high number of posts automatically equates to you knowing shit. You were the one bringing up different elements deraililng the original argument, not to mention the first start hurling insults along with your silly logic.

a perfect example is the 4th gen ABS thread, u decide to split hairs with me over how to change brake pads. i built my motor from a bare block what the **** do i care about your method of changing brake pads.

Yes, this is a perfect example of how you let your know it all ego get the best of you, first by being an prick to someone who was asking an innocent question, and being wrong in your answer, and even now for bringing up something totally unrelated to this topic.

i hold you personally responsible for the downfall of these 2 threads.
notice how everyone stopped posting now

Look at yourself, you know it is silly, you get your rocks off from e-thugin online. You could know a great deal or you couldn't, I'll never know I can't get past your ego. The fact that you bring up that you built an H22A1 yadayada just solidifys this in my eyes, again chest thumping and posturing, nothing to do with the argument in this thread.

[BigLew]

Nobody likes you Lew...You've been humiliated on a webforum...You might as well go kill yourself now...

Then you would be nobody and I don't realy care if you like me or not. Only silly asses like you care about supposedly being "humiliated" online from people I don't know and can't see.

[BigLew]

Alright guys, well Ludeboom, pretty much convinced me into getting a h22a,

now.. when i buy a h22a, online, is it most likely to need repair? if so, how much of repairs? how much money are we talking here?

also, can a H22A Type-S head, be put on a H22A to give it the extra 20HP the Type S has? or would i need other crap?!

Most places should have a 6 month warranty. If I were you I'd call some local salvage yards first and talk to some people at your local tuner shops to see if any local places have good deals and good reputations. I was able to hunt down an JDM H22A longblock from a local bone yard here in Chicago for $1400.

As far as putting a Type-S head on it. H22As in Type S/S Spec Preludes also had higher dome pistons ther CR in a Type S is 11:1 the regular JDM H22A is 10.6:1. It would most likely be cheaper to build the regular H22 more powerful than a Type S, with aftermarket.

[clowN]

oh alright, also, whats that long block?

ive seen long block and like, the other, which im guessing is the full motor,

what exactly is long block?

what do i need when i buy a motor?

Motor, ECU, and Tranny?

[BigLew]

Longblock is basically a full head, block, intake manifold, exhaust manifold. No ECU or tranny.

You are gonna need at least an ECU and a driver side engine mount bracket.

Most people who do an H22 swap into an S opt for at least an H23 tranny, but the H22 will bolt up to the F22 tranny.

[AccordinglyDone]

A f22b engine is not a DOHC dumbA## who ever told you that suck that A## and you got to be careful to f22b1 = VTEC F22b2 = non VETC go with the H22 more HP of the line F22b1 = 145 stock F22b2 = 130 stock H22a = 190 stockobd1(92-96 ludes) H22a = 200 stockobd2(97+ludes)

[ludeboom]

oh alright, also, whats that long block?

ive seen long block and like, the other, which im guessing is the full motor,

what exactly is long block?

what do i need when i buy a motor?

Motor, ECU, and Tranny?

the type-s pistons arent that much money. like $80 a piston give or take
but yes if u are going to build for NA, you could raise CR to 12-1 and put some stage 2 or stage 3 cams in it. along with some tuning and you will probably be making over 200 at the wheels, again tuning plays a big part.

~boom