Originally Posted by Bumnah

You're talking about giving money to companies where it took 30 years to develop comparable mid size cars? It's taking $4 per gallon of gas and billions lost per year to understand their products are old and out dated and they should change it up? These businesses don't deserve $.

Originally Posted by Hondaman

Playing devils advocate here:

What happens if we bail them out and they end up squandering the money on silly things like private jet flights to Washington DC. They've shown they are not serious by doing just this already. They claim that it was for their personal safety... So are commercial jets unsafe? $20,000 for a private vs $1000 for a round trip first class ticket is not good buisness practice.

So when we were at war, and they turned auto plants into tank plants; do you really think they were supporting the war? I think they were jumping on the bandwagon trying to suck money from the government in an industry where there was money available. They wern't selling car since all the men were at war, so they needed to make money somehow.

(You have very good points! I'm not trying to be an ass, just get a lively debate going.)

Originally Posted by Bumnah

You're talking about giving money to companies where it took 30 years to develop comparable mid size cars? It's taking $4 per gallon of gas and billions lost per year to understand their products are old and out dated and they should change it up? These businesses don't deserve $.

Originally Posted by spanky

They deserve it more than the banks that were knowingly shelling out money to people that couldn't afford to pay it back.

Originally Posted by JessTD

we don't help we lose untold thousands of jobs, MI basically dies as a state and we see the second depression in 100 years

also you talk about these jet flights and that stuff ... look at the banks, bonuses for exec's and private retreat parties and golf events. and the banks arent even lending more at this point even after all the money

30 years? not quite

and you talk about old/outdated

GM has an unmatched electric vehicle ready to roll on the market, the Volt... nobody has anything like it. NOONE. and now GM is trying to get some extra tax breaks for people who buy the volt and who is fighting it? toyota ... because it means less prius sales due to the volt getting a better tax break

GM & Ford are both still very big leaders in the automotive R&D world

Originally Posted by JessTD

GMAC didnt make this move strictly because of the bailout money

they have looking into doing this for some time now ... especially with GM taking their stake away
this was just the push they needed to pull the trigger


as for the volt, its not delayed, its still on track. its either a 2010 or 2011 debut which as far as i know was always the plan

Originally Posted by Nec

i realize not "strictly" due to bailout money - just saying they will follow the crowd - gs/ms alike.

2010 and 2011 is a little bit far from now - mayb the can push to get the car out earlier to start helping their bottom line

Originally Posted by JessTD

agreed, but you cant really blame them ... everyone else is getting money why not try to get theirs as well?

im not sure the volt will be such a money maker for them, its such a revolutionary setup that its gonna take the market time to adapt to it

Originally Posted by spanky

they need to sell their fucking planes, that's for sure.