GSR - A Question of Power
03-15-2007, 12:49 PM
#1
Kittenpurr Banshee scream
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GSR - A Question of Power
I've had my GSR for 8 years now, but I finally decided that some upgrades are in order. She's a sweet-running thing as is, but our babies respond so well to mods that I can no longer resist. Thanks to you guys out there in the Forum, I've set my choices for cat-back and suspension systems, so now it's time to think about more power.
In my daily driving experience I'm pretty happy with the top-end already on tap (although more is always better), but I would like more mid-range punch to deal with the cut-&-thrust of urban driving.
Power Goals:
* 1 step up from a Type R, about 220 bhp (not whp)
* Stay NA
* Concentrate on mid-range over top-end
* Daily driver reliability is a must
* California smog compliance is a must
* Keep OEM dual-stage intake
* Budget = not established, but everything has it's limits. Must have a shop do the work
Current Set-Up:
Motor: stock B18C1 w/126000 miles. Treated to a diet of Mobil 1 every 5000 miles and doesn't burn a drop.
Bolt-on's:
* CAI fabbed from OEM system w/ fenderwell intake
* Stock airbox w/ K&N drop-in filter
* DC Sports 4-1 header
* RS*R ExMag cat-back (planned)
I realize this is similar to other recent threads that I've been enjoying, but they aren't specific enough to my goals. Any advice is greatly appreciated!
In my daily driving experience I'm pretty happy with the top-end already on tap (although more is always better), but I would like more mid-range punch to deal with the cut-&-thrust of urban driving.
Power Goals:
* 1 step up from a Type R, about 220 bhp (not whp)
* Stay NA
* Concentrate on mid-range over top-end
* Daily driver reliability is a must
* California smog compliance is a must
* Keep OEM dual-stage intake
* Budget = not established, but everything has it's limits. Must have a shop do the work
Current Set-Up:
Motor: stock B18C1 w/126000 miles. Treated to a diet of Mobil 1 every 5000 miles and doesn't burn a drop.
Bolt-on's:
* CAI fabbed from OEM system w/ fenderwell intake
* Stock airbox w/ K&N drop-in filter
* DC Sports 4-1 header
* RS*R ExMag cat-back (planned)
I realize this is similar to other recent threads that I've been enjoying, but they aren't specific enough to my goals. Any advice is greatly appreciated!
Last edited by 95GSRGuy; 03-16-2007 at 08:29 AM.
03-15-2007, 01:15 PM
#2
been there done that
you can keep things simple using oem parts and still make decent power. healthy itr's typically put down 160-170whp. gsr's put down 140-150whp. so you've got some work ahead of you. sticking with oem parts i would use:
- ctr cams and intake valvesprings
- p30 pistons
- new rings, bearings, seals, etc. since the block will be apart
- jdm itr 4-1 header
- 2.5'' exhaust
i know you say you already have a header and exhaust planned but the one's you picked arent very good for power production. just something for you to consider.
since you want to keep the stock intake manifold you can have it ported by www.importbuilders.com it's not bad in stock form but there's room for improvement. you can also take the head and have a simple valve job done to it. a good valve job can do wonders for the head.
since your car is already obd1 you can easily run some form of engine management like crome or hondata or any numerous other systems available. reliability is all in the build and tune.
- ctr cams and intake valvesprings
- p30 pistons
- new rings, bearings, seals, etc. since the block will be apart
- jdm itr 4-1 header
- 2.5'' exhaust
i know you say you already have a header and exhaust planned but the one's you picked arent very good for power production. just something for you to consider.
since you want to keep the stock intake manifold you can have it ported by www.importbuilders.com it's not bad in stock form but there's room for improvement. you can also take the head and have a simple valve job done to it. a good valve job can do wonders for the head.
since your car is already obd1 you can easily run some form of engine management like crome or hondata or any numerous other systems available. reliability is all in the build and tune.
03-15-2007, 01:30 PM
#3
Moderator
i suggest doing a leakdown, compression and a dyno baseline first.
with 126000 miles, your engine can be barely breaking in, or it can be on its way out.
once you get a good idea where your compression is (should be around 210psi across), leakdown (5-7% is ideal) and dyno (150whp should be good, more is a plus), then you'll know exactly where to go.
i'd rock an oil pressure gauge too (20-25psi at idle/ 75 psi or higher at anything above 3k rpm), and temporarily run a vacuum gauge (at idle you should be pulling at least 19 inches of vacuum or more) too.
with 126000 miles, your engine can be barely breaking in, or it can be on its way out.
once you get a good idea where your compression is (should be around 210psi across), leakdown (5-7% is ideal) and dyno (150whp should be good, more is a plus), then you'll know exactly where to go.
i'd rock an oil pressure gauge too (20-25psi at idle/ 75 psi or higher at anything above 3k rpm), and temporarily run a vacuum gauge (at idle you should be pulling at least 19 inches of vacuum or more) too.
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03-15-2007, 02:42 PM
#4
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-p30 pistons
- new rings, bearings, seals, etc. since the block will be apart
- jdm itr 4-1 header
- 2.5'' exhaust
Snoop - 3 questions:
1) I confess ignorance as to what "p30" pistons are.
What does p30 mean, and what will they do for the compression?
2) The DC Sport 4-1 that is on the car is supposedly a replica of the jdm itr header. They look the same from what I can tell. Why is it power deficient?
3) My exhaust goals are as much about low noise as power, which is why I like the chambered designs. Is there that much of a difference between 2.36" and 2.5"?
And thanks for that quick response.
And Spec R - Thanks for your quick response too. I think in my case the motor is just breaking in. I bought it with 70,000 miles on it and have pretty much babied it ever since. Unfortunately, I don't know of any dynos within 100 miles of me.
- new rings, bearings, seals, etc. since the block will be apart
- jdm itr 4-1 header
- 2.5'' exhaust
Snoop - 3 questions:
1) I confess ignorance as to what "p30" pistons are.
What does p30 mean, and what will they do for the compression?2) The DC Sport 4-1 that is on the car is supposedly a replica of the jdm itr header. They look the same from what I can tell. Why is it power deficient?
3) My exhaust goals are as much about low noise as power, which is why I like the chambered designs. Is there that much of a difference between 2.36" and 2.5"?
And thanks for that quick response.
And Spec R - Thanks for your quick response too. I think in my case the motor is just breaking in. I bought it with 70,000 miles on it and have pretty much babied it ever since. Unfortunately, I don't know of any dynos within 100 miles of me.
Last edited by 95GSRGuy; 03-15-2007 at 02:47 PM.
03-15-2007, 02:47 PM
#5
been there done that
1. p30's are from jdm b16's and will put you in the 11-11.5:1 range
2. is that the dc the jdm version with a 2.5'' collector? if it is i suppose it'll get the job done. personally i dont like it cause it hangs so damn low. and also, if it is the jdm version it's not carb legal anyway. at least with the jdm itr header you can run the heatshields to keep it stock looking and a skidplate on the bottom. i forgot to mention you'll also need a matching 2.5'' cat.
3. you can still keep the noise down with a 2.5'' exhaust. get a good chambered muffler and the longest resonator you can fit under the car.
spec r also makes good points in making sure the engine is healthy and getting baseline hp and tq numbers so you know how much work you have ahead of you. either way, a dyno will be necessary now or later for final tuning.
2. is that the dc the jdm version with a 2.5'' collector? if it is i suppose it'll get the job done. personally i dont like it cause it hangs so damn low. and also, if it is the jdm version it's not carb legal anyway. at least with the jdm itr header you can run the heatshields to keep it stock looking and a skidplate on the bottom. i forgot to mention you'll also need a matching 2.5'' cat.
3. you can still keep the noise down with a 2.5'' exhaust. get a good chambered muffler and the longest resonator you can fit under the car.
spec r also makes good points in making sure the engine is healthy and getting baseline hp and tq numbers so you know how much work you have ahead of you. either way, a dyno will be necessary now or later for final tuning.
Last edited by Snoopy; 03-15-2007 at 03:09 PM.
03-15-2007, 06:28 PM
#6
Moderator
even though you say it might just be breaking in, and that you baby the car, theres no way of ever knowing what happened in the first 70k miles of that engine's life.
my teg had 28k when i first got it but it burned oil for some stupid reason. well it could have been my fault since i was very stupid with that car when i first got it but thats besides the point.
the only way you can really know is by doing the tests i recommended.
my teg had 28k when i first got it but it burned oil for some stupid reason. well it could have been my fault since i was very stupid with that car when i first got it but thats besides the point.
the only way you can really know is by doing the tests i recommended.
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03-16-2007, 08:55 AM
#7
Kittenpurr Banshee scream
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Snoop - I apparently don't have the DC header that I thought, since I have the OEM cat. Speaking of 2 1/2" cats, I've been told here in the Forum that there are zero CARB-legal cats that are truely"high-flow." So that seems to limit my exhaust options to whatever matches-up to the OEM cat. Not sure...
Spec R - What you say is true. Those tests are easy, and getting a baseline just seems like common sense. My problem is finding a dyno. The closest one I've been able to google is 110 miles away. I'll have to study this some more...
Spec R - What you say is true. Those tests are easy, and getting a baseline just seems like common sense. My problem is finding a dyno. The closest one I've been able to google is 110 miles away. I'll have to study this some more...
03-16-2007, 10:48 AM
#8
been there done that
my brother passed smog and the visual with a jdm itr header w/ heatshields, 2.5'' cat, and 2.5'' exhaust on his 96 gsr. this was at a legit shop too. 
i guess some people are just lucky :hsdunno:
i guess some people are just lucky :hsdunno:
03-18-2007, 09:37 PM
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About how much do you have for your budget? If you are keeping the gsr manifold you will need to get that worked over which is not cheap! Why not just get an aftermarket manifold? Especially if you are looking into running some itr/ctr cams.
I don't really see you putting down 190-200 whp with stock intake manifold and cams. Since you are still thinking about the mods here are a few suggestions. Send the head out to get worked on, get a new header and hi-flow cat and a free flowing exhaust.
Might really want to think about how much you want to spend on your quest for some more kick. Going to be harder to pass smog once your putting down more power too =P.
I don't really see you putting down 190-200 whp with stock intake manifold and cams. Since you are still thinking about the mods here are a few suggestions. Send the head out to get worked on, get a new header and hi-flow cat and a free flowing exhaust.
Might really want to think about how much you want to spend on your quest for some more kick. Going to be harder to pass smog once your putting down more power too =P.
03-19-2007, 11:49 AM
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you can keep things simple using oem parts and still make decent power. healthy itr's typically put down 160-170whp. gsr's put down 140-150whp. so you've got some work ahead of you. sticking with oem parts i would use:
- ctr cams and intake valvesprings
- p30 pistons
- new rings, bearings, seals, etc. since the block will be apart
- jdm itr 4-1 header
- 2.5'' exhaust
i know you say you already have a header and exhaust planned but the one's you picked arent very good for power production. just something for you to consider.
since you want to keep the stock intake manifold you can have it ported by www.importbuilders.com it's not bad in stock form but there's room for improvement. you can also take the head and have a simple valve job done to it. a good valve job can do wonders for the head.
since your car is already obd1 you can easily run some form of engine management like crome or hondata or any numerous other systems available. reliability is all in the build and tune.
- ctr cams and intake valvesprings
- p30 pistons
- new rings, bearings, seals, etc. since the block will be apart
- jdm itr 4-1 header
- 2.5'' exhaust
i know you say you already have a header and exhaust planned but the one's you picked arent very good for power production. just something for you to consider.
since you want to keep the stock intake manifold you can have it ported by www.importbuilders.com it's not bad in stock form but there's room for improvement. you can also take the head and have a simple valve job done to it. a good valve job can do wonders for the head.
since your car is already obd1 you can easily run some form of engine management like crome or hondata or any numerous other systems available. reliability is all in the build and tune.
Auto to Manual Swap
crower 403 cams
jdm p30 pistons
New Intake Manafold.
Maybe Vtec conversion? (Not sure probaly)
Have a Greddy Header
Ijen Short ram intake..
Thats it i think, mabye some day a Turbo not in Cali though LOL..
You would need at least a GSR Fuel Pump for this setup right?