LS/VTEC definition?

[Toy Civic]

The definition of LS/VTEC can be looked at in a couple ways. I want to see what the Honda community thinks? Scenario #1: B18A/B LS block, 89mm LS crank, VTEC pistons (cast or forged), VTEC water pump, VTEC oil pump, DOHC VTEC head of your choosing, VTEC oil squirters for cast pistons, and all the other hardware WITH LS/VTEC oil lines etc. Scenario #2: B18C1/5 GSR/Type R block, 89mm LS crank, VTEC pistons (cast or forged), VTEC water pump, VTEC oil pump, DOHC VTEC head of your choosing, VTEC oil squirters for cast pistons, and all the other hardware WITH NO LS/VTEC oil lines etc. Can both be considered LS/VTEC? I've been told that scenario #2 CANNOT be considered LS/VTEC and is just a stroked GSR motor, and that a true LS/VTEC has to have B18A/B stamped on the block. I personally have scenario #2. I prefer a perfect fit between the block and head and no oil line hassles. It also looks like a normal GSR motor, but has the different internals. The other huge benefit is that you will visually pass a California smog test. If a legit smog ref or tester sees a VTEC head on a B18A/B block, it is not legal, and you won't pass. What do you all think?

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[lstteg]

The b18c1 is not an ls motor so its not really a ls/vtec. Isn't the whole purpose of the ls/vtec to vtec a non vtec engine anyways?

[Toy Civic]

Notice how the only difference between scenario 1 and 2 is the engine stamp, and the additional oil line for the B18B. Other than that, the two setups are structurally NEARLY the same. Same bore, same stroke (same rods and crank), same deck height, yadda yadda yadda.

In the arena of the B18 motor, why go with a B18A/B block when you can get a B18C block for less than $500? To do a LS/VTEC properly, you have to yank and disassemble the motor ANYWAY. Why not just have a B18C ready to go and avoid any chances for problems?

The B20B/Z CRV block is exactly the same as the B18A/B block except for the 84mm bore size of the B20 motor. They both have the 89mm crank. So I can understand turning that motor into a VTEC if you don't have the funds to sleeve a B18C block. But a CRVTEC WILL NOT pass smog in California.

[TheOtherDave™]

So as not to confuse the issue... the overwhelming majority of LS-VTEC discussions follow this formula:

* A stock or near stock non-VTEC bottom end (B18A1, B18B1, B20B, B20Z)
* A VTEC cylinder head.
* The modifications, plumbing and wiring required to adapt the VTEC cylinder head to the non-VTEC bottom end.

Toy Civic: While your build is devilishly clever for passing CA smog.... IMO it does not fit the commonly accepted definition of an LS-VTEC motor build.

[lstteg]

^^Agreed^^

[Toy Civic]

Originally Posted by TheOtherDave™

So as not to confuse the issue... the overwhelming majority of LS-VTEC discussions follow this formula:

* A stock or near stock non-VTEC bottom end (B18A1, B18B1, B20B, B20Z)
* A VTEC cylinder head.
* The modifications, plumbing and wiring required to adapt the VTEC cylinder head to the non-VTEC bottom end.

Toy Civic: While your build is devilishly clever for passing CA smog.... IMO it does not fit the commonly accepted definition of an LS-VTEC motor build.

I know I am just asking for opinions, and I respect those opinions.

But I will continue to stand by my assertion that scenario #2 SHOULD also be accepted as an LS/VTEC definition. Yes I understand that on the surface, that the two setups cannot be named the same thing.

I maintain that the defining factor of LS/VTEC SHOULD be the 89mm crankshaft and nothing else. Like I said the only other differences are the engine code stamp and the extra oil lines. I say scrap the engine code for the LS/VTEC definition.

Like I said, why bother with the extra work of mating a VTEC head to a non-VTEC block when you can find good condition bare B18C blocks for less than $500? You have to spend hundreds anyway to get the extra quality hardware for the non-VTEC block. This is functionally better than a B18A/B block.

[TheOtherDave™]

Originally Posted by Toy Civic

I know I am just asking for opinions, and I respect those opinions.

But I will continue to stand by my assertion that scenario #2 SHOULD also be accepted as an LS/VTEC definition. Yes I understand that on the surface, that the two setups cannot be named the same thing.

I maintain that the defining factor of LS/VTEC SHOULD be the 89mm crankshaft and nothing else. Like I said the only other differences are the engine code stamp and the extra oil lines. I say scrap the engine code for the LS/VTEC definition.

Like I said, why bother with the extra work of mating a VTEC head to a non-VTEC block when you can find good condition bare B18C blocks for less than $500? You have to spend hundreds anyway to get the extra quality hardware for the non-VTEC block. This is functionally better than a B18A/B block.

From a practical approach, your setup is brilliant.
I agree with you that from an engineering standpoint, retrofitting the LS crank into a B18C1 motor is a better solution.

But the process by which you've built your motor is entirely different from the process that most people define as an LS-VTEC motor.

When it comes to issues of semantics, it comes down to majority rule.
The pattern of building an LS-VTEC setup has followed the "wrong" route for so long, that method has become the standard definition.

But instead of trying to convince the masses that your method should be the new definition... just enjoy the fact that you've beat the CA smog bastards at their own game.

[OldSkoolF22]

so why bother doing anything to a B18C? I agree the whole point of putting a VTEC head on al LS block is to achieve VTEC... but a B18C already has VTEC.. so how does it fit into this post of an ls/vtec?

[primetime]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolF22

so why bother doing anything to a B18C? I agree the whole point of putting a VTEC head on al LS block is to achieve VTEC... but a B18C already has VTEC.. so how does it fit into this post of an ls/vtec?

the reason why it fits is because he is acheiving the point of what an ls/vtec is for which is the large displacement combined with vtec. But at the same time it can be considered a stroked GSR. In Cali his visual should pass because on the outside everything matches although internally it is modified.
Here in Connecticut when they do emissions they don't do a visual, so a "true" ls/vtec will pass based on emissions alone.

[g290ls]

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/te..._vtech_engine/
everything you need to know about the ls/vtec conversion my friend

and to be honest i would rather do a gsr swap then to do the hassle of a ls/vtec convo, it will cost the same amount roughly

[Snoopy]

why does it matter?

you have a stroked b18c1. it didnt start out as an ls engine.

[2001TEGGSR]

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1910203

[sherwood]

your motor is better

it will achieve a much higher comp ratio and therefore higher power output, it's no so much the displacement as most people think, its how much closer to the head the piston is due to the taller strokes