need advice on forced indution

[slvrteg]

Ok, I am going to be getting some boost for my 2001 gsr w/ stock internals and 93 octane. I was going to get the JR hight boost supercharger w/ the hondata ecu, which should be making somewhere around 230whp at 8psi. But now i am wondering if i would be able to make the same power with a turbo but with less psi? i dont want a laggy dyno queen turbo though. needs to be driveable. heard the garrett GT28RS is good.

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[EK hatch]

I would go with the supercharger, less expensive and makes almost the same power when you are at the same psi with a turbo. Its your decision though, just do what you want to do.

[slvrteg]

i like the ease of installation of the supercharger and the hondata is included. but i have seen some turbo kits that claimed around the same hp with like 2 psi less boost. Figured i could either run less boost for the same power and less stress on my engine or turn up boost to equal JR level and get more hp.

[civicandtegra]

a super charger takes away power thats y a turbo can make more with less psi, i dont know if the supercharger is faster because it is limited with the rpm of the motor, a super charger is better for v6, v8. and for a good supercharger is around 2gs and up the best is jackson. personaly i would go with a turbo because i can always change it for a lager or smaller turbo without much trouble, but if the blower goes on a supercharge u will end up gettin a new supercharger kit

[Provocateur]

JRSC are pieces of shit anyway. Get a turbo and you will be much happier.

[TheOtherDave™]

I would not call the JRSC a POS by any means.
For those who detest lag in any amount, a postive displacement "blower" makes a hell of a lot of sense. [I'm actually looking at one for my DC4. ]

That said, a turbocharger is a more efficient form of forced induction...i.e, at a given boost pressure, the intake charge temperature will be lower with a turbo than with a JRSC.

That said, there are some interesting options for intercooling the JRSC. Mike (MrFatBooty) posted a link to a company that retrofits the JRSC intake manifolds with air-to-water intercoolers. PM him for the link if you're interested.

It's a matter of personal preference and budget. Since you've expressed concern about lag, I'd bet you'd be happier with a JRSC. It wil amplify torque much lower than most turbo kits.

If it's at all possible, get some seat time behind the wheel of a turboed GSR and supercharged GSR. Then make your decision as to which powerband feels best for you.

[TheOtherDave™]

Originally Posted by civicandtegra

a super charger takes away power thats y a turbo can make more with less psi, i dont know if the supercharger is faster because it is limited with the rpm of the motor, a super charger is better for v6, v8. and for a good supercharger is around 2gs and up the best is jackson. personaly i would go with a turbo because i can always change it for a lager or smaller turbo without much trouble, but if the blower goes on a supercharge u will end up gettin a new supercharger kit

Okay..I'm not picking on you, but there's more to this discussion that needs to be said.

1) How can you say a blower is "better" for a certain kind of engine?

Regardless of engine size or layout, turbochargers produce a different kind of powerband than superchargers. It comes down to the preference of the driver. IMO, since our engines lack torque in general, I'd argue that a supercharger is more effective for a street-driven car than a bolt-on turbo kit, which does little to aid torque until around 3000 rpm.

2) Rebuilding Costs: Turbo vs JRSC:

Eaton, the company that makes the superchargers for Jackson Racing / Moss Motors can rebuild their superchargers just as easily as a turbo can be rebuilt. The difference in rebuilding costs are negligible, as Jackson Racing provides a 100K mile warranty on the supercharger. To the best of my knowledge, no turbo kit comes with that level of protection.

My 2.3¥

[hakjai]

My 2.3¥ ~ 0.021211USD haha i get it

[LT]

just make sure you don't get worried when you hear noises coming from the BOV.

[EK hatch]

Originally Posted by LT6916

just make sure you don't get worried when you hear noises coming from the BOV.

hahahah lol, I loved that thread.

[TheOtherDave™]

Originally Posted by g10 526

My 2.3¥ ~ 0.021211USD haha i get it

Exactly!

[Provocateur]

Originally Posted by TheOtherDave™

2) Rebuilding Costs: Turbo vs JRSC:

Eaton, the company that makes the superchargers for Jackson Racing / Moss Motors can rebuild their superchargers just as easily as a turbo can be rebuilt. The difference in rebuilding costs are negligible, as Jackson Racing provides a 100K mile warranty on the supercharger. To the best of my knowledge, no turbo kit comes with that level of protection.

My 2.3¥

Considering the horror stories coming from people buying JRSC, I would never even consider one even if they were a good idea on a 4 cylinder engine to begin with. Yeah, they have a 100k mile warranty, but how many calls, flaming hoops, and hassles would you have to go through to fulfill that warranty due to the awful customer service over at Jackson Racing. I have a Greddy kit and I don't doubt their service would be just as bad, if not worse. But they have an excuse: they are a completely Japanese company who works through dealers, not customers. Where is Jackson Racing's excuse?

[TheOtherDave™]

Originally Posted by Shmoo

Considering the horror stories coming from people buying JRSC, I would never even consider one even if they were a good idea on a 4 cylinder engine to begin with. Yeah, they have a 100k mile warranty, but how many calls, flaming hoops, and hassles would you have to go through to fulfill that warranty due to the awful customer service over at Jackson Racing. I have a Greddy kit and I don't doubt their service would be just as bad, if not worse. But they have an excuse: they are a completely Japanese company who works through dealers, not customers. Where is Jackson Racing's excuse?

I've heard two tales of woe.

IMO, the underlying issue is that Oscar Jackson sold his business to Moss Motors and Moss Motors was incapable of providing proper customer care at that time.

I do agree with you though... Moss Motors aka Jackson Racing had no excuse for their prior idiocy.

Since Eaton is responsible for building and servicing the superchargers, the warranty ought to stipulate that the consumer sends their claim directly to Eaton if the unit is deemed defective.

Actually, does anyone know how those 2 cases were resolved? I assume that Moss Motors was taken to small-claims court, or they settled.

In the past few years, Moss Motors has shown initiative by building new systems for the K-Series motors and I'm personally willing to consider them as an option. Maybe.

[ slvrteg -- I sincerely apologize for derailing your thread. ]

[slvrteg]

Thanks for the viewpoints. I have also heard of problems with JRSC but have also heard many people who love them. not sure what to think then. If i was to get a turbo i would intercool it, which would in turn knock down the psi a few pounds, which would mean i would have to drive the turbo that much harder to get a solid 6 psi to the manifold. If this isn't correct let me know. also has anyone had experience with or heard about the garrett gt28rs? or any other suggestions for turbo.

[LT]

a buddy of mine has a JRSC on his GSR. took me for a spin and i was impressed. at full throttle thats when the bypass valve closes to allow for full boost. the sound of the supercharging winding up was really cool. put me in my seat, but near the top of the powerband it was fizzling out.

[slvrteg]

What psi is yours friend running on his JRSC?

[westcoaststyle]

Originally Posted by slvrteg

Thanks for the viewpoints. I have also heard of problems with JRSC but have also heard many people who love them. not sure what to think then. If i was to get a turbo i would intercool it, which would in turn knock down the psi a few pounds, which would mean i would have to drive the turbo that much harder to get a solid 6 psi to the manifold. If this isn't correct let me know. also has anyone had experience with or heard about the garrett gt28rs? or any other suggestions for turbo.

With the right size FMIC, you will not lose enough PSI to even notice. I wouldn't make that as large of a consideration that you are. Have you considered the Vortech SC?

[slvrteg]

no not really, i have heard that the Vortech is junk. peaky and useless. i want a daily driver with some punch. Haven't really heard even one person say the Vortech was good. Figured the Roots blower would be my best bet for a SC.

[LT]

Originally Posted by slvrteg

What psi is yours friend running on his JRSC?

he has it setup on his management system: 8psi at half-throttle, 10psi at WOT

[Provocateur]

Originally Posted by slvrteg

no not really, i have heard that the Vortech is junk. peaky and useless. i want a daily driver with some punch. Haven't really heard even one person say the Vortech was good. Figured the Roots blower would be my best bet for a SC.

If I were to supercharge, I would consider the JRSC way before I considered the Vortech system as well. The powerband is so incredibly narrow, so you might as well go with a turbo kit that creates much more power than a Vortech kit will ever provide. The centrifugal kits reintroduce lag which is why people supercharge instead of turbo, so why even bother?

[slvrteg]

[westcoaststyle]

Tells you what I know about the SC options out there.

[slvrteg]

thanks for the suggestion though, westcoaststyle

[slvrteg]

any thoughts on the garrett turbo? gt28rs

[Provocateur]

I just did a quick search and found this forum: http://www.honda-acura.net/forums/sh...ghlight=gt28rs

It has some great turbo information as well as some information on the gt28rs you mentioned. Personally, I would go for a T3/T4 hybrid for quick spool-up and relatively good power.

[slvrteg]

see i heard the t3/t4 had some lag compared to the gt28rs which is supposed to have almost no lag. true or not?

[Provocateur]

It all depends on the setup with the intercooler, exhaust, etc. You can get a T3/T4 to a point where lag is almost non-existent. I have the tiny greddy turbo on my car and it is fully spooled by 3000rpms, so I don't really have lag to deal with. The only issue is the size of the turbo restricts higher power outputs. You have to give something up to get something: you either get lag but tons of power once the turbo is spooled, or you get a smaller turbo that spools almost instantaneously with very limited power output. That is just the reality of turbocharging any engine.

[slvrteg]

so it seems that if i want to have a fun and practical daily driver my best bet would be a supercharger. I am content with a max of 8-10 psi regardless of which i pick, if that changes anyones thoughts about the gt28rs.

[slvrteg]

and tuning would be the key...

[Provocateur]

I have a fun and practical daily driver and I make more power to the wheels than a JRSC kit running the same amount of boost. I don't have the low-end torque that a SC has, but it is still noticeably more than a stock engine has.