Any help with check engine mystery?

[tatemater]

Hello!
I'm new to posting on the MB but have looked around here before. I have a problem and am hoping someone out there could be so nice as to help me.

I have a '96 stock GSR that has been wonderful until now. (I purchased the car new.) It has about 111,000 miles on it.

Right when I picked my car up from the dealer after getting a valve adjustment a couple of months ago, the check engine light was on. I noticed it was idling a bit rough and low. They told me they cleaned the engine and probably got a sensor wet. I thought this was a line of crud, but was happy that I got my a new clutch in during the same visit. They reset the light and sent me on my way.

It seemed to run and idle okay for about two weeks and then the light came back on. The computer test showed multiple misfires in cylinders 2-4 and a manufactures code that the local guy didn't know about and couldn't read. (My closest Acura dealer is about 2 hours away.) So, I went to a local mechanic that has a great reputation around here. He replaced all my spark plugs, the spark plug wires, and my distributor cap and reset the codes. My performance was better (didn't know there was a problem) and the light stayed off for about 1 week. Then it came back on.

It was showing misfire codes again. He sent me to a different mechanic that he thought could help more so I wouldn't have to go back to the dealer. I saw him twice. They cleaned my throttle body as it was all "gunked" up. Again I had a slight increase in performance, but the light came back on. The second time I took in to this guy he said he just didn't know what the problem is.

When I come into a stop or slow down from a higher rate of speed (rpm's up to at least 3,500 or so), the tach drops way below 800-900 and feels like it wants to stall. It hasn't yet, but it sure feels like it's going to. It also doesn't feel right at idle speed and the idle is a bit low. My car has always been right around 900 rpms when warm with slight variences when the fan or something kicks in.

My car was included in that Acura/Honda recall thing for emissions, so I wonder if this could all be related to that. I had my emissions checked, oil change, and some ingnition wires or something changed that had to do with the recall. I also have had my A pipe changed. I had a hole or something in it ... at least that's what they told me.

I have a really good mechanic locally now that admits when he doesn't know the answers and doesn't try to screw me. This is great because I am a woman ... I hate to admit that I don't get taken seriously when it comes to my car sometimes because of that, but it's true. (I even had to bring my husband in a few time to "take care" of things.) BUT ... I love cars and really know my car. Something just isn't right. My mechanic here would love to fix it, but could possibly use some guidance. He can also do it cheaper than Acura.

Also, the other mechanic didn't think the valve adjustment could have caused the light to come on, but my guy thinks it's possible. I've spent close to $400 already on this problem and don't want to spend much more if I can help it.

I plan on keeping this car much longer and hope to make it go faster in the future. I want a sleeper.

If anyone out there has any thoughts on this, I would be soooo appreciative. And no ... I don't want to sell my car . I'm amazed at how many offers on the street I get. I don't even keep it as clean as I should and it has a good sized dent on the front bumper. I'm glad I don't live in a big city as I would have to worry more about it being stolen.

Take care!
Erika

PS ... I did a search for pervious posts on this type of problem, but couldn't seem to find anything that really hit on my problem. I got some ideas but nothing concrete.

[Snoopy]

first check to see what code its throwing yourself: http://www.c-speedracing.com/faq/06.php

next find what code it is: http://www.c-speedracing.com/faq/05.php

[carta79]

Yeah I would first find out what code(s) your ecu is throwing, then go from there. It's easier to troubleshoot the problem when you know the code. Snoopy gave you a good write-up there. I personally would reset the ecu afterwards to see if the check engine light returns.


Oh and welcome BTW!

[VTECGSR]

I don't know about you guys but my GSR has always idled a little low, the idle isn't rough its just low. I've heard 750 is the stock setting for idle on VTEC's. But the low ilde doesn't seem to bother the car, it doesn't want to stall. Mine idles around 300-400 and everybody tells me it's the idle speed sensor or something to that effect.

[Snoopy]

300-400 is very low.

[tatemater]

Thank you so much guys!!!! I'm printing out those codes for my mechanic to look at tomorrow. He was going to look for them. You probably saved me a long two hour drive. I'll let you know what happens. (He's got the code written down somewhere, but since the light's on again he'll read the computer again.)

Thanks again!
Erika

[carta79]

It sounds to me like it's the dealerships fault. I would have made them fix the problem from the start. They most likely didn't cover anything when they cleaned the engine bay and fouled the plugs.

Also it looks to me like all the proper steps were covered in fixing the problem. It could be something so simple as pulling the ECU fuse for a while.

Take a look at this thread. Click here

Edit: Nevermind, I just noticed that you've replied to that thread.

[dubcac]

Misfires caught by the ECU are generally spark/ignition related. Since the distributor cap/rotor/plugs/wires were replaced, I'm thinking it's an internal part of the distributor like the coil or igniter. I don't see how a valve adjustment could have caused these problems, unless somehow water got inside the distributor when they cleaned it. As for the idle, 750 is average.

[tatemater]

Well, my husband and I did the method Snoopy linked to in order to read the codes. (That was really cool by the way -- had no idea we could do that at home.) It came up 72 and 74 which are the codes for misfires in cylinders 2 and 4. This is what's been coming up before again and again and again.... At one point it read misfires in 2-4. #1 has never come up though.

My mechanic's computer showed a different code at one point that he couldn't read. I don't know what that number was, but will find out as he wrote it down.

Maybe I need a new coil or igniter like Maser Yodub said. My mechanic (Paul) thought a coil could be causing the problem too but wanted to try the other things first -- I'm assuming they are easier and/or cheaper to mess with??

You all have been such a great help.

Oh ... and we did reset the ECU by unhooking the negative wire from the battery as directed by another one of Snoopy's links. That got the light off of course but the engine still almost stalls when coming to a stop sometimes. (I do get the clutch pedal down in plenty of time. I just didn't want someone to think it was my driving. I actually raced someone light to light a number of years back in a '92 4 cylinder Nissan pickup truck with a 5 speed against a little sporty Toyota or something. The only reason I won is 'cause I could drive a stick and the other person couldn't so well. )

Sorry about that ... I really do like to drive.

Take care and thanks again!
Erika

[dubcac]

Cheaper than replacing the coil/igniter might be replacing with a used distributor from a junkyard.

[JimBlake]

Since your '96 is OBD-2, maybe your mechanic plugged in an OBD-2 scanner. The error numbers are different vs. the blinking-light method.

P0300 = random misfire
P0301 = 71 = cyl-1 misfire
P0302 = 72 = cyl-2 misfire
P0303 = 73 = cyl-3 misfire
P0304 = 74 = cyl-4 misfire
I guess these can also be indicated by P1399.

[bnuk]

what exactly constitutes a misfire?

[sstearns2]

You might want to check out the 'distributor king' distributors on ebay. I just got one and it looks nice. I like the idea of just replacing the whole distributor rather than waiting for all the little parts in it die one at a time.

Scott

[tatemater]

Hello ... again I say you all are so incredible and nice. Snoopy's links really, really helped too. My problem may be solved, but I won't say that with certainty until another 2 weeks or so. It seems as if my ECU has relearned stuff. Is this possible? After disconnecting the negative terminal from the battery and then reconnecting it, the car did the same thing (go really low on the tach and feel like it would stall when coming in for a stop) for a little bit. Yesterday when I drove it, it did it once when I first drove the car and then never again. It's idling better and everthing.

Am I crazy? Was it that simple of a thing? There was a problem ... it was fixed by replacing the plugs and a few others things as listed above ... and all that needed to get done that wasn't done was to reset the computer??? This reminds me of turning off my computer when it messes up and I can't seem to fix it. Different things I know, but it seems like the same basic principle.

Take care!
Erika

[carta79]

Am I crazy? Was it that simple of a thing? There was a problem ... it was fixed by replacing the plugs and a few others things as listed above ... and all that needed to get done that wasn't done was to reset the computer??? This reminds me of turning off my computer when it messes up and I can't seem to fix it. Different things I know, but it seems like the same basic principle.

Take care!
Erika

Yes it could be "that simple of a thing". So no, I don't think your crazy. That's why I suggested pulling the ECU fuse in an earlier post.

Also it looks to me like all the proper steps were covered in fixing the problem. It could be something so simple as pulling the ECU fuse for a while.

Let's us know how the car continues to run.

[tatemater]

Hi Carta!
I'm sorry I didn't thank you as well. I looked back through to see who helped, but I overlooked you.

So far so good today as well. The engine slows down like it used when I come to a stop. I forgot what it used to do as it's been a while. When I come to a stop it slows down first to about 1,000 rpms an then if I sit there a bit is drops to a little below 800 rpms I think. I hasn't almost stalled on me in quite a while and no CEL. Wooohooo!

Take care and thanks again! (If it doesn't come back on within the next two weeks, then I'll bee really convinced it's fixed.)

Erika

[tatemater]

Well, the light came back on yesterday. I guess it's still not fixed. It's showing the same codes for misfires in cylinders 2 and 4. I guess I'll change the coil next.

It was running great for a couple of days and then 'something' happened while sitting at an idle. Oh well!

Take care!
Erika

[westcoaststyle]

Just remember that the coil/ignitor for 92-00 Civics and (I believe) all Integras are the same so don't go out and spend what it costs to get a new one. Hit up a junk yard or something for some other distributor. There's no reason to buy them brand new when there are so many out there that you can use.

[dubcac]

I still say distributor related...coil/igniter.