ls or b16??????

[RicerVtr]

well, i currently have a 1991 civic si with a built dohc zc engine in it and im thinkin im gonna sell the built engine and go for a more powerful NA setup and have it stock. I am stuck right now between the b16 and the ls. I see advantages with both here, the b16 has more power, but the ls is a little more streetable has more potential and always can be lsvtec'd, and they both would cost about the same. Does anyone know of any certian reliability issues with either of these engines(before the lsvtec thing ofcoarse). I hear there both about as fast in the quarter, anyone disagree? What do yall think would be best? Any other advantages or disadvantages of either? thanks for the help

[Snoopy]

the ls is cheaper and has more torque. or a b20 swap for more torque.

[RicerVtr]

how hard is it two swap a b20 into a fourth gen civic? Is it even possible? They seem to be going for really cheap, the b20s.

[RicoD]

go with a B20....believe me its worth it. A friend of mine has a 91 Hatch and its with a b20. all it has really is B20, B16 trans, and dc header....lets just say it keeps up with a mildly modified integra type R ( remember its fully gutted nothing is inside except the front seats and dash....the integra has full interior )

[Civic2Scooby]

b20z with first gen LSD b16a tranny....real nice setup...

[Kai]

how hard is it two swap a b20 into a fourth gen civic? Is it even possible?

It goes in just like a B18A/B. The electronics need to be backdated using 90-91 B18A parts.

If you plan to end up with a 1.8l DOHC VTEC engine, buy a B16A now and swap in a B18C shortblock when you can afford one.

[Civic2Scooby]

It goes in just like a B18A/B. The electronics need to be backdated using 90-91 B18A parts.

If you plan to end up with a 1.8l DOHC VTEC engine, buy a B16A now and swap in a B18C shortblock when you can afford one.

true dat...I just need the money to get me a GSR short blocky

[sherwood]

I'd go with the ls and then look around to find me a R with a blown block....
gotta run fast to get it tho

[sherwood]

It goes in just like a B18A/B. The electronics need to be backdated using 90-91 B18A parts.

If you plan to end up with a 1.8l DOHC VTEC engine, buy a B16A now and swap in a B18C shortblock when you can afford one.

i would think that you'd use old prelude b20 parts from the 2.0Si

what i really think this kid should do is find a way to retrofit the AWD drivetrain from a CR-V to his civic, of course it would all have to be upgraded due to how small the rear end on that drivetrain is... or meh.. reverse the damn thing and put the front side on the rear somehow, that way you got a RWDriver with a lil power up front to help with corners. .... ahhh... dreams

[Civic2Scooby]

i would think that you'd use old prelude b20 parts from the 2.0Si

what i really think this kid should do is find a way to retrofit the AWD drivetrain from a CR-V to his civic, of course it would all have to be upgraded due to how small the rear end on that drivetrain is... or meh.. reverse the damn thing and put the front side on the rear somehow, that way you got a RWDriver with a lil power up front to help with corners. .... ahhh... dreams

the b20 in the prelude is not the same as the CRV b20, in fact the b20 prelude motor isnt really considered a "b" series motor. There is a kit in the works by a couple companies to do the AWD conversion

[sherwood]

whats the difference?

[Kai]

i would think that you'd use old prelude b20 parts from the 2.0Si

No. Those old B's were freaks.

whats the difference?

Head bolt pattern and coolant passages, longer cams, various parts of the block and head castings, the distributor, the bore (83mm for the 90-91 B21A)... everything. The trans bolt pattern is probably different too.

90-91 (OBD-0) B18A1 parts are definately what to use.

Once upon a time, there actually was a business that fitted DOHC VTEC heads to those blocks, but they're long gone.

[menappi]

i would think that you'd use old prelude b20 parts from the 2.0Si

what i really think this kid should do is find a way to retrofit the AWD drivetrain from a CR-V to his civic, of course it would all have to be upgraded due to how small the rear end on that drivetrain is... or meh.. reverse the damn thing and put the front side on the rear somehow, that way you got a RWDriver with a lil power up front to help with corners. .... ahhh... dreams

its been done, actually i saw this crx with ah AWD drivetrain from a one of those oldschool civic wagon things..wagovan or whatever..but anyways it had the awd and a turbo gsr swapped into it. maybe i can find a link somewhere...

[sherwood]

i know it's been done, i just wanna see it widespread, the problems with it are the tranny wont handle alot of power, so it's no good

[RicerVtr]

why would a b20 be better, dosen't it have alot less hp than the b16 and b18? How much harder would it be to wire a b20?

[Kai]

Less horsepower then the B16A, yes. Once the swap is done and B18A/B manifolds are mounted, it will make a touch more horsepower then the B18A/B.

The trick is in the torque. It destroys the B16A and has a heathly margin over the B18A/B when torque is considered.

[BoostedITR41]

brail auto has a AWD integra....it is a huge waste of time. you also have to remove the factory fuel tank. and well over 200hours labor.

the B20A from old preludes have a 95mm stroke which is really long. piston speed is rediculous with anything above factory redline

[egb18c]

if your gonna leave it stock, then id get the ls motor cause its just as fast as the b16, then get the b16 tranny for it, and be faster

[AcuraFanatic]

IMO you should aim for the B20. Down the road if you have money laying around you can do a CRVTec and swap on a GS-R, ITR or B16 head.

[bambbrose]

If you are thinking with money involved(which we all are)... here is my opinion:

First of all what are you goals? I'm sure that they are pretty high up there. A b20b or b20z swap is gonna be fun, but things to take into consideration... You have to peice the entire kit together, if you want a good short tranny, it is gonna kill the engine with high revs on the freeway, and you are gonna want to rebuild the block and make it vtec capable eventually... so that IMO rules out doing b20 at first..

Second choice you can make, is a full LS swap. You will have good torque and it's gonna be fun also, but you will want to slap a vtec head on it eventually, and if you want that done right you will rebuild it stronger also. Second bad thing, you have a shitty tranny for NA with the LS swap.

Third choice and the best choice IMO, the B16. Its gonna be pretty cheap upfront cost wise, You will have the head that you want, and the tranny that you want also. You can sport that around, and it'll be fun as hell. While you beat the shit outta that, you can pick up a spare b20b/z block or a b18 block, build it up, and have it ready to swap in at a later date. You'll already have a good head, tranny, and all the other vtec wiring taken care of. It's the smartest move financially and will result in the fastest car for the least amount of money in the end..

Just some things to consider..... and obviously this is all bias cause I got a b16 hatch (I love it btw)

[twinring]

B20b has less hp than the B16 but it has way more torque than the B16 consider 111ft lbs. to 129or something ft. lbs. torque is what will make your car accelerate from a standstill. Hp wont do anything until about 5500rpm. Many road racers are swapping out thier B18s and B16s for stock B20s bec they have more torque out of the turns. I have a jdm eg6 civic with the original b16a and Y21 tranny (US Y2K civic SI) its fun but its a torqueless wonder. Ive bought a B20 that I will be installing as soon as I get all the parts together, but keep in mind that my car originally came outfitted with a B series Vtec engine, so the ECU, wiring, Vtec head, and mounts dont need to be sourced. Ive heard stories of people doing B swaps into EF's and complaining about vibration. so thats another thing to consider.

[r1000000000]

If your going NA then for sure the more torque engine, B20, would be the nicest option. But if you want to beat that ITR, consider saving and doing FI. Get your 300 hp easily out of any B series motor. The B16 will be your best bang for the buck and a more reliable option if FI, although GSR is probably better but more $. How much is a B20 anyways? what is your budget? what are your expectations?

[twinring]

a N/A 230-250hp car is faster than a turbo'd 300hp car. because a turbo cant scavenge exhaust efficiently, feeds hot air into the intake and bakes the hell out of your engine compartment. (ever seen the engine compartment of a daily driven non factory turbo car?) the heat factor is like 1500 +F thats hotter than the oven in your kitchen.

[gingas]

Gingas,yeah like the other guy mentioned,number one is what can and can't you afford.Two,what's your goal 1/4 mile,street racing,reliability.Three,do you want a high reving engine low torque off line or big torque off line non high reving unless you go frankenstein(LSVTEC)or crv-vtec head.I have a 91 civic si I had 2 years and I've had the stock sohc 108 hp,then a jdm dohc ZC,B18A LS motor(130hp)people who did the swap lied said i had a 94 LS motor(142hp)wasted $3000k which what led me to a B16A.I love it.I had all kind of experiences in a short time.I love the high reving motor 8200rpm.I do notice the vibration.Is that all B series in EF's.good luck,gingas

[b16ahybrid]

a N/A 230-250hp car is faster than a turbo'd 300hp car. because a turbo cant scavenge exhaust efficiently, feeds hot air into the intake and bakes the hell out of your engine compartment. (ever seen the engine compartment of a daily driven non factory turbo car?) the heat factor is like 1500 +F thats hotter than the oven in your kitchen.

Yes I have seen the engine compartment of a daily driven non-factory turbo car, one sits in my gagrage
...Your theory about the n/a car being faster isn't necessarily true. A lot of it has to do with the power under the curve (look at a dyno sheet) N/A engines create a broader power curve compared to a boosted engine that is more peaky.
A 230hp boosted honda with a smaller turbo (many people including me use larger turbo's for more overall power and better flow) will rival a 230hp N/A honda given the same specs (car wise). I'm not here to argue whats better, I am just throwing that out there. Also Turbo's do create heat when compressing air, but intercoolers do a great job or dissipating that heat prior to entering the engine...

Lastly,
Horespower sells cars, torque wins races.

[kenton]

8 valve CX engine would do nicely.

[r1000000000]

These are some good points here.

It is the Area under the curve which shows a lot. It is pretty much a fact that a NA of equal hp/torque > turbo. Turbo does cook the shit out of your engine and lowers reliability a lot. You will no longer drive a super reliable car. If done right and not overboosted or prepped with correct internals it can be decently reliable, but not like a NA built correctly. It will cost ya! Anyway, back to the topic, the 3 points above there are really good. Gotta know where you wanna go.