Need Pro's and Con's on these:
11-22-2004, 08:24 PM
#1
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Need Pro's and Con's on these:
Current Setup: 94 Civic EX D16Z6 - This is a daily driver with eibach springs and shocks.
Please add some Pro's and/or Con's "Copy and Paste"
Do not add things that are not going to help me, for example (turbo D's will whoop on any n/a B), or any of that stupid crap...
I am serious about this and want to find out what will be best for me.
H Series 2.2 + 2.3 Motor Swap:
Pro's: Maintenance/Tuning(DOHC), More stock HP than B Series, Larger displacement than 1.8 or 2.0,
Con's: Weight, Cost of Parts and Availability, Swap cost
B 1.8 + 2.0 Series Motor Swap:
Pro's: Maintenance/Tuning(DOHC), Lighter than H Series, Parts Availability, Lager displacement
Con's:
Turbocharged/Supercharged D:
Pro's: H , Lighter than B Series,
Con's: Relyability, Tuning, Limitations (SOHC), less displacement = less HP gains from modifications
Please add some Pro's and/or Con's "Copy and Paste"
Do not add things that are not going to help me, for example (turbo D's will whoop on any n/a B), or any of that stupid crap...
I am serious about this and want to find out what will be best for me.
H Series 2.2 + 2.3 Motor Swap:
Pro's: Maintenance/Tuning(DOHC), More stock HP than B Series, Larger displacement than 1.8 or 2.0,
Con's: Weight, Cost of Parts and Availability, Swap cost
B 1.8 + 2.0 Series Motor Swap:
Pro's: Maintenance/Tuning(DOHC), Lighter than H Series, Parts Availability, Lager displacement
Con's:
Turbocharged/Supercharged D:
Pro's: H , Lighter than B Series,
Con's: Relyability, Tuning, Limitations (SOHC), less displacement = less HP gains from modifications
h:
11-23-2004, 09:50 AM
#3
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Originally Posted by racerdave
H Series 2.2 + 2.3 Motor Swap:
Pro's: Maintenance/Tuning(DOHC), More stock HP than B Series, Larger displacement than 1.8 or 2.0
Con's: Weight, Cost of Parts and Availability, Swap cost
Pro's: Maintenance/Tuning(DOHC), More stock HP than B Series, Larger displacement than 1.8 or 2.0
Con's: Weight, Cost of Parts and Availability, Swap cost
B 1.8 + 2.0 Series Motor Swap:
Pro's: Maintenance/Tuning(DOHC), Lighter than H Series, Parts Availability, Lager displacement
Con's:
Pro's: Maintenance/Tuning(DOHC), Lighter than H Series, Parts Availability, Lager displacement
Con's:
Con: it's fucking expensive.
Turbocharged/Supercharged D:
Pro's: H , Lighter than B Series,
Con's: Relyability, Tuning, Limitations (SOHC), less displacement = less HP gains from modifications
Pro's: H , Lighter than B Series,
Con's: Relyability, Tuning, Limitations (SOHC), less displacement = less HP gains from modifications
Con: It's a D.
11-23-2004, 05:09 PM
#5
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I am leaning towards a B, but if I can find a H cheap enuff I want that...
A B18 is not all that expencive....
Are the heads on the 1.8 and 1.6 swapable?
Because I heard somone talkin about it once...?
Would I be better off with a B16 (since its cheaper) and save my money to mod it after the swap?
How much do you think I can sell my D16Z6 for if its got 130k on it, and all the maintenance paperwork?
Come on thats all the Pro's and Cons u got?
H Series 2.2 + 2.3 Motor Swap:
Pro's: Maintenance/Tuning(DOHC), More stock HP than B Series, Larger displacement than 1.8 or 2.0,
Con's: Weight, Cost of Parts and Availability, Swap cost, new shifter assembly needs to be mounted and custom mounts are required.
B 1.8 + 2.0 Series Motor Swap:
Pro's: Maintenance/Tuning(DOHC), Lighter than H Series, Parts Availability, Lager displacement than D, it bolts in.
Con's:
Turbocharged/Supercharged D:
Pro's: H , Lighter than B Series,
Con's: Relyability, Tuning, Limitations (SOHC), less displacement = less HP gains from modifications
P.S. my bad I figured this would be ok here since it involves my 94 civic? OH well move it if u like?
A B18 is not all that expencive....
Are the heads on the 1.8 and 1.6 swapable?
Because I heard somone talkin about it once...?
Would I be better off with a B16 (since its cheaper) and save my money to mod it after the swap?
How much do you think I can sell my D16Z6 for if its got 130k on it, and all the maintenance paperwork?
Come on thats all the Pro's and Cons u got?
H Series 2.2 + 2.3 Motor Swap:
Pro's: Maintenance/Tuning(DOHC), More stock HP than B Series, Larger displacement than 1.8 or 2.0,
Con's: Weight, Cost of Parts and Availability, Swap cost, new shifter assembly needs to be mounted and custom mounts are required.
B 1.8 + 2.0 Series Motor Swap:
Pro's: Maintenance/Tuning(DOHC), Lighter than H Series, Parts Availability, Lager displacement than D, it bolts in.
Con's:
Turbocharged/Supercharged D:
Pro's: H , Lighter than B Series,
Con's: Relyability, Tuning, Limitations (SOHC), less displacement = less HP gains from modifications
P.S. my bad I figured this would be ok here since it involves my 94 civic? OH well move it if u like?
11-23-2004, 07:31 PM
#6
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They like to manage my forum for me for some reason? Oh well. You've mentioned pretty much all the standard advantages and disadvantages of any of the setups and all that's really left is opinion. Therefor, here's mine.
D-series engines are good solid engines designed to last 200k miles in a <150hp grandma car and are build by Honda accordingly. I'm not knocking them, I have one in my '98 EX and an Eclipse 14g turbo and side mount IC waiting for me to someday fabricate a turbo setup for it. SOHC isn't really a disadvantage, the drivetrain is less complicated, less expensive to upgrade (you only have to buy 1 of everything) and they typically make a little more torque than a DOHC of the same level since there's less work for the engine to do. Honda however doesn't give it's D-series the same aggressive VTEC cams and redlines and high stock compression of it's B-series performance workhorses so it's more of an apples to oranges comparision with Honda engines. They can be upgraded to withstand just about anything but that's very expensive, that said, Honda's sold millions of D16Z6/Y8 equiped Civic's, so it's not hard to find parts and for cheap.
B-series engines, specifically the VTEC versions are the engines Honda build more for racing but still serve very well as a street motor. The aftermarket support is amazing, you can almost build a complete B-series engine from aftermarket parts, including the block and just about everything except the head (and I've heard for years edlbrock is coming out with an aftermarket B-series head but I haven't seen it yet). You can build them anyway you want (10k redline, 30 pounds of boost, 200k reliablity) and there are a lot out there but Honda also doesn't make them anymore and didn't sell as many as they did D-series so the supply will eventually run out (I always wonder if well someday find a '95 Integra GS-R in a barn, under a tarp with a goat tied to it and get all excited like a muscle car guy would with an old GTO or something). Personally, this is my choice, I put a B18C1 into my '92 CX project car and was extremely pleased with it. I would personally pony up and buy the B18C1 as opposed to a B16A because all the aftermarket parts you throw at it won't add that .2L of displacement (except a stroker kit or larger bore sleeves, but the B16A block is shorter).
H-series engines are big. Tremendous potential and probably more final hp than you could ever make on a B-series engine but also probably more than you'll ever get comfortably through a fwd setup or be at all driveable on the street. I've never been big on H22A civic but then again, I never drove one. The aftermarket has produced some really high quality mounting systems for the engines but I'm still soured from the old days of custom one-off H-series mounts that just didn't work (put the oil pan well below the front cross member, snaped axles from bad positioning and the like). I've always felt the H-series swap was for those who wanted to have the biggest or to be different from the rest, but for me, the B-series fit better, had better aftermarket support and was a blast to drive, even if everybody else had the same damn thing. The additional weight on the front axle and the handling problems it would casue turned me off too but I've heard there not as bad as the internet claims.
That's my motor comparison and if I had to do it all again, I would probably go with a B18C1 again. I actually saved the GS-R tranny from my hybrid to bolt to a B20 to stick in my '98 EX but I never had the money and the motivation at the same time. I wanted the B20 because I had done the B18C and wanted something different. I sold the tranny a few months back (still have some junk laying around though) and I bought my 240 for a new project.
Just to answer a couple of questions. The B16A and B18C1 heads are interchangeable but the B18C1 head has a smaller combustion chamber (higher compression) and different intake manifold bolt pattern from the rest of the B-series heads. Some say the older B16A design is better, and the B18C5 or B18C Type R head is a B16A head with some minor porting and polishing and a better valvetrain/cams/intake, but either could perform just as well. Sticking a DOHC VTEC head on a DOHC non-VTEC block is possible but the head isn't the only difference between the two so modifications are nessicary for a non-VTEC block to withstand the rpm the head is now capabile of. You can probably sell your D16Z6 for $300-$500 if you can find a buyer. Like I said, millions were made and sold so it's going to be hard to demand top dollar, especially considering the milage. Good luck with your project.
D-series engines are good solid engines designed to last 200k miles in a <150hp grandma car and are build by Honda accordingly. I'm not knocking them, I have one in my '98 EX and an Eclipse 14g turbo and side mount IC waiting for me to someday fabricate a turbo setup for it. SOHC isn't really a disadvantage, the drivetrain is less complicated, less expensive to upgrade (you only have to buy 1 of everything) and they typically make a little more torque than a DOHC of the same level since there's less work for the engine to do. Honda however doesn't give it's D-series the same aggressive VTEC cams and redlines and high stock compression of it's B-series performance workhorses so it's more of an apples to oranges comparision with Honda engines. They can be upgraded to withstand just about anything but that's very expensive, that said, Honda's sold millions of D16Z6/Y8 equiped Civic's, so it's not hard to find parts and for cheap.
B-series engines, specifically the VTEC versions are the engines Honda build more for racing but still serve very well as a street motor. The aftermarket support is amazing, you can almost build a complete B-series engine from aftermarket parts, including the block and just about everything except the head (and I've heard for years edlbrock is coming out with an aftermarket B-series head but I haven't seen it yet). You can build them anyway you want (10k redline, 30 pounds of boost, 200k reliablity) and there are a lot out there but Honda also doesn't make them anymore and didn't sell as many as they did D-series so the supply will eventually run out (I always wonder if well someday find a '95 Integra GS-R in a barn, under a tarp with a goat tied to it and get all excited like a muscle car guy would with an old GTO or something). Personally, this is my choice, I put a B18C1 into my '92 CX project car and was extremely pleased with it. I would personally pony up and buy the B18C1 as opposed to a B16A because all the aftermarket parts you throw at it won't add that .2L of displacement (except a stroker kit or larger bore sleeves, but the B16A block is shorter).
H-series engines are big. Tremendous potential and probably more final hp than you could ever make on a B-series engine but also probably more than you'll ever get comfortably through a fwd setup or be at all driveable on the street. I've never been big on H22A civic but then again, I never drove one. The aftermarket has produced some really high quality mounting systems for the engines but I'm still soured from the old days of custom one-off H-series mounts that just didn't work (put the oil pan well below the front cross member, snaped axles from bad positioning and the like). I've always felt the H-series swap was for those who wanted to have the biggest or to be different from the rest, but for me, the B-series fit better, had better aftermarket support and was a blast to drive, even if everybody else had the same damn thing. The additional weight on the front axle and the handling problems it would casue turned me off too but I've heard there not as bad as the internet claims.
That's my motor comparison and if I had to do it all again, I would probably go with a B18C1 again. I actually saved the GS-R tranny from my hybrid to bolt to a B20 to stick in my '98 EX but I never had the money and the motivation at the same time. I wanted the B20 because I had done the B18C and wanted something different. I sold the tranny a few months back (still have some junk laying around though) and I bought my 240 for a new project.
Just to answer a couple of questions. The B16A and B18C1 heads are interchangeable but the B18C1 head has a smaller combustion chamber (higher compression) and different intake manifold bolt pattern from the rest of the B-series heads. Some say the older B16A design is better, and the B18C5 or B18C Type R head is a B16A head with some minor porting and polishing and a better valvetrain/cams/intake, but either could perform just as well. Sticking a DOHC VTEC head on a DOHC non-VTEC block is possible but the head isn't the only difference between the two so modifications are nessicary for a non-VTEC block to withstand the rpm the head is now capabile of. You can probably sell your D16Z6 for $300-$500 if you can find a buyer. Like I said, millions were made and sold so it's going to be hard to demand top dollar, especially considering the milage. Good luck with your project.
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Andy - Reinstated Hybrid Forum Moderator
'06 Subaru Legacy Spec B - Stock, for now
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11-26-2004, 11:53 PM
#7
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Well, I got 3 people lined up ready to buy my motor and tranny for no less than 1000, I have called about every place in WA that has one, and they all want over 800 just for the motor. And most of them have atleast 100k. How much did your swap cost? Also can you PM me so I can get ur email addy or screen name? I need to chat with somone who has done the swap, so I can get all the info I need. Also dont they still make the B20?
11-27-2004, 12:05 PM
#10
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k24's
the kseries took over as a block that could be bored from 2.0 to 2.6 liters or so i believe, so it encompases both the larger displacement needed for the accords and the smaller displacement needed for the now larger civics and integras (rsx's)
right now the 2 engine coldes are k20 and k24
i believe that the k-series has only been widely fitted into 96+ civics so far, so no dice for you right now, but there have been people who have fitted them into crx's (with parts going beyond the hoodline)
the kseries took over as a block that could be bored from 2.0 to 2.6 liters or so i believe, so it encompases both the larger displacement needed for the accords and the smaller displacement needed for the now larger civics and integras (rsx's)
right now the 2 engine coldes are k20 and k24
i believe that the k-series has only been widely fitted into 96+ civics so far, so no dice for you right now, but there have been people who have fitted them into crx's (with parts going beyond the hoodline)