sorcerer

Hi, I just joined this forum, so please bear with me

A couple of days ago, I found out that my 1994 Honda Accord EX Coupe (83100miles) is leaking oil pretty bad . Today, a mechanic told me that oil is leaking from "OIL PUMP SEAL", so the timing belt plus many other things need to be changed (oil on the timing belt). The shop gave me a list and an estimate (the air filter was very dirty, so it's included here):

timing belt.............$54.00
balance shaft belt...$54.00
camshaft seal.........$10.00
crankshaft seal.......$10.00
balance shaft seal...$10.00
water pump............$80.00
air filter.................$22.38

the total is $240.38 just for parts .

Now, I know that what they charge for parts is way too expensive, so I plan to buy them online and have the shop just do the job.

I have a bunch of specific questions though, and i would really appreciate it if anybody could help me out (I have read a lot of posts in a couple of honda forums on the web about timing belt change, so I know the basics - some of my questions are related to terminology):

0. When searching in online part stores, I could not find any OIL PUMP SEAL - this is the exact word the mechanic used. Is it the same as "balance shaft seal" or any of the other two seals mentioned above?

1. Do you recommend that all the seals be changed even though they don't leak? (I guess the answer is yes!)

2. The mechanic did not say anything, but do I need to change the power steering belt and/or compressor belt as well? is alternator belt and compressor belt the same?

3. which online website do you suggest?
Manchester Honda - http://www.manhonda.com everything is cheap here!
ThePartsBin.com/ProStreetOnline.com - they're exactly the same; the latter is a bit more expensive
T.A.S Auto Parts - http://www.secureleadercom.com/exst...ynfrontpage.asp
Majescic Honda- http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com
San Leandro Honda - http://www.slhondaparts.com looks like Majestic Honda

I literally could not find some parts I was looking for in Majestic Honda (like balance shaft seal - I don't even know under which section it is listed). That website is very hard to use for someone like me who has limited knowledge of engine - too bad for me; I've read very good things about it. I could not use Majestic Honda, so I used 3 other websites to get a price quote for the OEM parts I need; the results are:

3 seals + 2 belts + waterpump
Manchester Honda : 137.78
ThePartsBin.com : 153.94
TAS Auto Parts : 161.70

3 seals + 2 belts + waterpump + air filter
Manchester Honda : 154.34
ThePartsBin.com : 165.81 or 171.07 (depending on the air filter)
TAS Auto Parts : 180.65

Has anybody here bought parts from Manchester Honda before? Do you know how good they are? Why are their OEM parts so much cheaper than the other stores? Are they reliable?

Oh btw, the price for doing the job, which includes changing the air filter and takes 5.7 hours according to the estimate I got from the shop, is $342.00. $60.00 an hours is not bad, is it?

Thanks a lot

JimBlake

First, check with the shop because they might refuse to use parts that you buy from somewhere else. Or they might refuse to warranty the work. Shop rate of $60 per hour sounds maybe a little low - maybe they're counting on the profit from the parts?

I've bought stuff from Manchester a couple times, they didn't screw up my orders. On Majestic's site, look under these systems...
- Camshaft-timing belt for the belts, tensioner pulleys, & camshaft seal.
- Waterpump is on it's own category.
- Oilpump & strainer shows the crankshaft & balanceshaft seals (#25 & 26 below). The crankshaft seal is probably what the mechanic means by oilpump seal, since it actually installs into the oil pump.

I don't know whether your leak might actually come from any of the other little seals in this picture?

You're almost on schedule to replace your timing belt anyway (90k miles) even if you didn't have the oil leak. I'd be inclined to not replace the camshaft seal if it's not leaking.

vtecaccord01

I order my parts from www.tasautoparts.com Most shops I know charge $80 per hour.

strykernyc

same here tasauto. and if u had follow the manual u wouldnt have this problem. 60k miles change all that.
oil pump seal, then u are losing a massive amount of oil, dont drive ur car and if you turn it on make sure u drop some oil on it.

sponginpunk

i had just had this job done a couple of months ago....they changed the timing belt, water pump and front crankshaft seal and it cost about 600. so expect to pay around that much

sorcerer

all of you have been great help to me...i really appreciate it.

i called the shop today and asked them about the oil pump seal. apparently what the mechanic meant by the oil pump seal was balancer shaft seal. so i guess the mystery is solved

Jim Blake:
thanks for pointing out the crankshaft and balancer shaft seals to me on Majestic Honda's website, so they're #25 and #26 respectively. they all go under the name OIL SEAL - how am i supposed to know what they are?
could you please confirm that the camshaft seal is #28, the timing belt is #16, and the balance shaft belt is #11 in this picture as well?

again, #28 goes under the name OIL SEAL! water pump + its gasket is easy to find, even for me
since it's an approximately 12 year old car and its timing belt has never been replaced, i prefer to change all the seals now (including the camshaft seal) to avoid any damages to the engine in near future.
one more thing, the mechanic did not mention anything about the tensioners and springs, so do you suggest that i change them?

strykernyc:
the manual suggests that the timing belt be replaced every 90000 miles. also, i bought the car in mid-June when it already had 79300 miles on it. the previous owner had not changed the timing belt before. my only mistake was that i did not negotiate with him to exclude the timing belt job's price from his asking price of the car. anyway, it was a good buy, and i'm happy
it was the time anyway to change the belt (plus other necessary things), so i really can't complain.

vtecaccord01:
thanks for your info. i think i'll buy the parts from either Majestic Honda or Manchester Honda (the latter is the cheapest), since TAS AutoParts is the most expensive of them all.

sponginpunk:
thanks man, so now i'm sure the price is more or less the same everywhere and i'm not paying a lot more than the regular price.


i also called another shop and our local honda dealer for an estimate - here are the results:
the 1st shop: 5.7 hours, $342.00 for labor; $601.01 total (this includes all the parts and the air filter + labor for it)
the 2nd shop: (?) hours, $410 for labor; $550 total (no air filter though - they also did not mention the balancer shaft seal, so i guess that should be added to the labor and to the total price)
honda dealer: 7 hours (!), $525 for labor; $750 total (again, no air filter + labor)

what i do not understand is that why honda dealer says it takes 7 hours to do the job while for the other two, it would take roughly 5.5 to 6 hours?

and also, the honda dealer told me that the THERMOSTAT has to be changed as well! is that true? i've been searching a bunch of forums for the timing-belt changing information, but i never came across "the thermostat also has to be changed" thing! the honda dealer price for labor also includes the price of thermostat and its labor. i think the labor price alone would be around $490 for the dealer.

i'm just confused now where should i take it?

oh one more thing, only honda dealer told me that if i bring my own OEM parts, they cover the job under a warranty. the two other shops refused to give a warranty if i don't buy the parts from them.

JimBlake

Yeah, sometimes the names are kinda confusing. If you can't tell, place the order over the phone & make sure you explain yourself. You're gonna get both(?) so it'll be obvious which is which by the size.

You're correct about the camshaft seal & belts.

About the tensioners, I bet they're not gonna last ANOTHER 90k miles, so you may as well do them now. That's the same reason for doing the waterpump; it's not really in the official maintenance schedule either. If you were doing this work yourself then you might choose differently. Depends on your pain tolerance for repeating the job.

When you change the waterpump, you have to drain the coolant. That's a perfect excuse to flush out the system & put in fresh antifreeze & a new thermostat. The part is cheap & you'll kick yourself if the old T-stat sticks closed next summer.

The external drive belts have to come off when doing this job (alternator, AC, PS). It seems kinda silly to put the old ones back on??

Airfilter is super easy for you to do yourself. What is it, like 4 spring clips to open that thing up?

Thooks

Airfilter is super easy for you to do yourself. What is it, like 4 spring clips to open that thing up?

Agreed. I don't know why he is so hung up on that. $15 for a Wix and 4-1/2 minutes, you're done.

I'd get EVERYTHING replaced behind the timing belt cover that I could.


The Tstat is on the OTHER side of the engine and will take a very experienced mechanic 20 minutes to replace. A DIY'er can do it in an hour. I did.

If you are gonna have all that done, change the upper and lower radiator hoses too.

sorcerer

Thanks a lot JimBlake and Thooks

I'll change the two other belts since there's no labor cost. As for the thermostat, I agree that it's cheap, but how much its labor would be? The same question goes for the upper and lower radiator hoses.
The thing is, the price for doing all these (without the thermostat and the hoses) is $600 which is nearly half of my monthly salary! I'm just a graduate student (slave) getting paid by the university (master) and I really can't afford a $800 repair job...I think I'll stick to the basics.

As for the air filter, I know that it's super easy, but one of the four bolts holding the air filter cover down to the housing is torn/broken (the broken part is stuck in the housing), so only three bolts are holding down the cover now (i wonder if it's bad for the engine and causes unclean air to get into the engine). i wanted them to take that broken part out and replace the broken bolt (the others are rusted as well, but they work) since i do not have the necessary tools to take the broken part out (any suggestions are welcome on how to do it, btw). that's why they gave me an estimate for the air filter!

Thooks

Read my last post about the Tstat. I wouldn't give more than $30 for parts and labor for the mechanic to switch it out with the timing belt.

Your air filter is not held on by four spring clips, but by four bolts (machine screws).

Any mechanic worth his salt should have broken fastner extractors and know how to use them profeceintly. He should be able to remove and replace the parts within 10 minutes, including slapping a new air filter in.

Yeah, you're on a small budget. Take this lesson in life at this age. Start an emergency fund for stuff like this and never use credit cards.

Your oil leak shouldn't be that bad. I've seen 1/2 ton trucks very overloaded, with more than 250k miles on them, that burn and leak a quart of oil per day run for over a year like that.

Keep the oil full. Buy a case of the cheapest stuff you can find and stick it in the trunk. Check it every morning or afternoon.

See if the shop will work out a 60 payment plan with you. See if you can pay 1/2 and let you pay 1/4 each month.