DIY gone wrong, help... - Honda-Acura.net

eonsx311 · 06-12-05, 12:38 PM

well today being day # two on the omni full coilover install started off well. after finishing the front i moved to the back. lower strut bolt came out good, upper control arm bolts came out good and i installed the new strut/shock into the right side after preloading. then i moved on to the left side. well the bottom bolt gave me some dificulty so i brought out the ol' breaker bar and it did exactly what its name potraits. it broke the bolt. well to that damn shock out i had to cut that welded nut off the old strut body and bend the old strut fork past the ends and removed the whole assembly. things should go smooth now, just tap the headless bolt from the rubber that surrounds it inside the lower control arm. not so fast. shit wont budge so i decide to remove the lower control arm and take it to a press to get it removed. upper bolt came out great and then the breaker bar strikes again on the lower bolt. now i have two broken bolts no way to put the shit back in and im fearing i need to get it towed to a mechanic. any suggestions at this point? my head is about to explode.

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MPerson · 06-12-05, 12:43 PM

Get someone to drive you to a parts store.

eonsx311 · 06-12-05, 12:48 PM

well i cant get that bottom bolt that holds the strut to the lower control arm. tried everything the strut is out but the headless and cut piece is still in the rubber. thats why i wanted to take the whole lower control arm out to get it to a press. thats when i snapped the lower bolt that holds the lower control arm to the break and hub. these bolts have a welded nut to the lower arm and when you snap the head off you are left with a pin running throug that is threaded into a nut welded to the arm. i cant get that out with any tools i have.

MPerson · 06-12-05, 12:51 PM

Hm, you don't have a dremel to cut through the weld?

eonsx311 · 06-12-05, 01:04 PM

here is a pic from the back of the vehicle

lowbrow · 06-12-05, 01:21 PM

There are kits you can buy to drill a hole into the bolt and then remove it. Not sure how well it would work in your situation.

racerdave · 06-12-05, 01:57 PM

Just drill out the bolt, and if you mess up the threads in the hole go buy a new control arm at a parts yard,,, It cant be that much $....

If I were you I would try to drill it out, and just go buy a new bolt.

racerdave · 06-12-05, 01:59 PM

Also, I never knew cars in Massachusetts got so rusty...

**asiandoood** · 06-12-05, 02:38 PM

whoa... must be in the midwest or east coast. that is a lot of rust. my friend's car was like that. you'll need to soak those bolts in WD40 as much as you can. as far as your situation goes...you can drill out the bolt and re-tap/thread the hole if needed. Most safest way is probably get a used control arm if you damage this one drilling it out.

eonsx311 · 06-12-05, 05:10 PM

im like 2 miles from my house doing the work at my grandparents garage. do you think its possible to limp my car going like 5 mph with my flashers on just to get it home? i have set up everything else on this install. front is completely done, camber and all and rear just needs the left side fixed and right side ride height evened out.

**asiandoood** · 06-12-05, 05:21 PM

if the bolt is loose or something is not secure on the suspension...do not risk it.

bluetwo · 06-12-05, 05:39 PM

You'll find that once you've drilled out a significant portion of a bolt it gets a lot more cooporative. You should be able to pull it out with some pliers at that point.

MPerson · 06-12-05, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racerdave

Also, I never knew cars in Massachusetts got so rusty...

It sucks here, my exhaust mid-pipe just rusted off after 4 years.

Jafro · 06-12-05, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowbrow

There are kits you can buy to drill a hole into the bolt and then remove it. Not sure how well it would work in your situation.

Good try... but easy-outs won't work on rusty hardened steel suspension bolts. They're okay for pulling broken studs out of aluminum cast parts, and stuff that isn't torqued over 30lbs, but they don't work on the big stuff.

I'd pull the hub and rotor off, get a sawzall and buzz the bolt off closest to the nut, between the LCA and the fork... then use vise grips to honk the rest of that bolt out. If you damage it, screw it. Replace it with a junkyard assembly. I'd trust that before re-using any suspension part with damaged threads.

The biggest problem with a breaker bar is that it puts angular pressure on the bolt instead of just turning it. I learned my lesson a long time ago on suspension parts, and now I never do those kinds of jobs without PB Blaster™ and air tools. I haven't broken anything since.

eonsx311 · 06-12-05, 09:25 PM

i couldnt budge it with my impact driver, i wish to god i had some pb blaster tho. all i have is wd 40, dostn penetrate enough. the funny thing is i think it was the rubber that is f'ing up the program, when i was yarding on it i could see the bolt turning in that welded nut fine so i thought i was home free.

DiAbLo3785 · 06-12-05, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racerdave

Also, I never knew cars in Massachusetts got so rusty...

snow+salt=bad juju

eonsx311 · 06-12-05, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racerdave

Also, I never knew cars in Massachusetts got so rusty...

in massachusetts everything gets rusty. wood deck? rusted. pavement? rusted. its amazing the bolts didnt rust out before i did the install.

racerdave · 06-12-05, 11:57 PM

That sucks, I would just drill it out and if you F* it up get a junkyard one. I just hope the one from the junkyard doesent break like this one did.. lol.

I am glad I have not one single bit of rust on my car.

If I were you I would take a wire brush to the rusty bolts and cover them with some black hamerite (penetrates rust, and stops it.)

**Andy** · 06-13-05, 12:44 AM

The problem is that the bolt rusts to the sleeve inside the bushing on the LCA and unfortunately, no penatrating oil will really be able to get inside there (it's not the threads that seize, it's inside the 1" wide sleeve itself). What you may have to do is use a sawzal and cut the LCA bolt on the far side of the LCA as shown in the picture. You want to however cut as close to the LCA as you can. Basically you want to leave some of the bolt sticking out of the bottom of the trailing arm when the LCA is cut away so you have something to grab and twist out (probably with visegrips). If you cut the bolt flush with the far side of the trailing arm, you won't have anything to grab the bolt with to remove it (don't ask me how I know). I don't know if this will work but you want to cut on the v in the lower picture

______
|--Lv-|
|--C
|--A

The LCA bushings or entire arm will have to be replaced as the bushing will be destroyed when you cut. You can buy aftermarket LCA's that are fancy colors and have urathane bushings or you can also probably pickup a junkyard LCA pretty cheap and even get some new bolts if you get lucky and their not seized. I bought a new LCA bolt at my local dealership for a few bucks and replaced my bushings with Energy Suspension ones. While your out shopping, pickup a tube of antiseize and coat the shaft of all your suspension bolts when you re-attach them and you won't have this problem again. Just remember, if you cut the LCA bolt and bushing, leave yourself something to grab to turn that bolt out.

oscar_425 · 06-13-05, 12:44 AM

I know how you're feeling bro.. I've been in the same situation twice... I got depressed and wanting to hit the car... thanks god I live a block away from a muffler shop

eonsx311 · 06-13-05, 09:09 AM

update. i have a mechanic that lives a door down from my house and he is going to try to fix it. i have to work all week so i dont have time to deal with this. too bad really, if i had 4-6 hours to mess with it i could most likely get the job done. its my last resort at this point. the mechanic thinks he can save the LCA by cutting off the welded bolt and just replacing it with a fresh one. so we will see. ill keep you all updated.

eonsx311 · 06-13-05, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy

The problem is that the bolt rusts to the sleeve inside the bushing on the LCA and unfortunately, no penatrating oil will really be able to get inside there (it's not the threads that seize, it's inside the 1" wide sleeve itself).

you nailed it man, thats exactly what happened. does heating those bushings with a heat gun soften the rubber enough to get that sawed off bolt out?

Jafro · 06-13-05, 10:05 AM

There's actualy a metal sleeve in that bushing. The bolt seizes inside the sleeve as Andy mentioned. If you heat it up, the rubber may melt, and the sleeve can come loose in the bushing. That still won't help you because the sleeve will still be rusted to the bolt on the other side of the hole.

Don't beat yourself up over it. It's actually a really common problem on higher mileage cars or older cars.

eonsx311 · 06-13-05, 10:09 AM

yeah, im not beating myself up that much, but the mechanic who is fixing it is i bet. the worst thing about it all is that i thought i was home free. on the last damn bolt that had to be removed, i have a problem. what are the chances ya know? and jafro, i agree, more cowbell.

Jafro · 06-13-05, 10:29 AM

If the bolt was turning before it snapped off in the sleeve, then you can probably tappity-tap and rotate the part in the threads out with a hammer and a punch once you get the rest of that stuff out of your way. That would save you a lot of drilling and tapping. That would greatly reducing the chances of destroying the threads.

Better place an order with Honda for that bolt right now. You won't match it in a hardware store. When you get the new one, you'll see why it seized. It's got RIBS!

eonsx311 · 06-13-05, 10:50 AM

i know all about the ribs, got the right side off with persuasion, and noticed that it was bone dry. all that remained was a few rust stains and dried up lithium grease. its at the mechanic right now so ill call him and ask if i need to put the parts on order or if he has them readily available. i told him to leave the ridhe height be and not to touch the upper strut nut because i still have to finish adjusting the ride height and preloading the shocks. then i should be good to go. then its off to the alignment shop. how much does a 2 inch drop usualy throw off the toe?

MPerson · 06-13-05, 07:07 PM

Enough to get an alignment for sure.

eonsx311 · 06-15-05, 09:27 AM

update: got a new lower control arm from the junk yard but those bastards didnt remove it. they gave me the whole trailing arm, hub and brake assembley including the control arm. i almost snapped another bolt trying to get the control arm out again. should be back on the road tomorrow. then off to the alignment shop. soon the civic will live again.

06-12-05, 12:43 PM	#2
MPerson Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Eastern MA Posts: 4,703	Get someone to drive you to a parts store. __________________ ('''\(CiviC)/''') Red Sox Nation MikeyMerse

06-12-05, 12:51 PM	#4
MPerson Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Eastern MA Posts: 4,703	Hm, you don't have a dremel to cut through the weld? __________________ ('''\(CiviC)/''') Red Sox Nation MikeyMerse

06-12-05, 01:57 PM	#7
racerdave USAF C-17 Crewchief Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Washington Posts: 1,068	Just drill out the bolt, and if you mess up the threads in the hole go buy a new control arm at a parts yard,,, It cant be that much $.... If I were you I would try to drill it out, and just go buy a new bolt. __________________ NEW: 91 CRX Si - B16A, I,E,H.

06-12-05, 01:59 PM	#8
racerdave USAF C-17 Crewchief Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Washington Posts: 1,068	Also, I never knew cars in Massachusetts got so rusty... __________________ NEW: 91 CRX Si - B16A, I,E,H.

06-12-05, 02:38 PM	#9
asiandoood in search of unicorn(s) Join Date: Aug 2000 Posts: 26,081	whoa... must be in the midwest or east coast. that is a lot of rust. my friend's car was like that. you'll need to soak those bolts in WD40 as much as you can. as far as your situation goes...you can drill out the bolt and re-tap/thread the hole if needed. Most safest way is probably get a used control arm if you damage this one drilling it out. __________________ *[BLOG]* *[N1 Concepts]* *[ENDLESS 8]* F/S: JDM EG9 Parts - PM me for info

06-12-05, 12:48 PM	#3
eonsx311 today is not my birthday. Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 3,035	well i cant get that bottom bolt that holds the strut to the lower control arm. tried everything the strut is out but the headless and cut piece is still in the rubber. thats why i wanted to take the whole lower control arm out to get it to a press. thats when i snapped the lower bolt that holds the lower control arm to the break and hub. these bolts have a welded nut to the lower arm and when you snap the head off you are left with a pin running throug that is threaded into a nut welded to the arm. i cant get that out with any tools i have.

06-12-05, 01:21 PM	#6
lowbrow Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Prince Edward Island Posts: 1,643	There are kits you can buy to drill a hole into the bolt and then remove it. Not sure how well it would work in your situation.

06-12-05, 05:10 PM	#10
eonsx311 today is not my birthday. Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 3,035	im like 2 miles from my house doing the work at my grandparents garage. do you think its possible to limp my car going like 5 mph with my flashers on just to get it home? i have set up everything else on this install. front is completely done, camber and all and rear just needs the left side fixed and right side ride height evened out.

06-12-05, 05:21 PM	#11
asiandoood in search of unicorn(s) Join Date: Aug 2000 Posts: 26,081	if the bolt is loose or something is not secure on the suspension...do not risk it. __________________ *[BLOG]* *[N1 Concepts]* *[ENDLESS 8]* F/S: JDM EG9 Parts - PM me for info

06-12-05, 05:39 PM	#12
bluetwo Relevance is irrelevant Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Augusta, GA Posts: 6,056	You'll find that once you've drilled out a significant portion of a bolt it gets a lot more cooporative. You should be able to pull it out with some pliers at that point. __________________ ________________________ 00 Honda Civic EX daily driver 84 Honda Nighthawk CB700

06-12-05, 09:25 PM	#15
eonsx311 today is not my birthday. Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 3,035	i couldnt budge it with my impact driver, i wish to god i had some pb blaster tho. all i have is wd 40, dostn penetrate enough. the funny thing is i think it was the rubber that is f'ing up the program, when i was yarding on it i could see the bolt turning in that welded nut fine so i thought i was home free.

06-12-05, 11:57 PM	#18
racerdave USAF C-17 Crewchief Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Washington Posts: 1,068	That sucks, I would just drill it out and if you F* it up get a junkyard one. I just hope the one from the junkyard doesent break like this one did.. lol. I am glad I have not one single bit of rust on my car. If I were you I would take a wire brush to the rusty bolts and cover them with some black hamerite (penetrates rust, and stops it.) __________________ NEW: 91 CRX Si - B16A, I,E,H.

06-13-05, 12:44 AM	#19
Andy Hybrid Forum Moderator Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Southwestern PA Posts: 2,363	The problem is that the bolt rusts to the sleeve inside the bushing on the LCA and unfortunately, no penatrating oil will really be able to get inside there (it's not the threads that seize, it's inside the 1" wide sleeve itself). What you may have to do is use a sawzal and cut the LCA bolt on the far side of the LCA as shown in the picture. You want to however cut as close to the LCA as you can. Basically you want to leave some of the bolt sticking out of the bottom of the trailing arm when the LCA is cut away so you have something to grab and twist out (probably with visegrips). If you cut the bolt flush with the far side of the trailing arm, you won't have anything to grab the bolt with to remove it (don't ask me how I know). I don't know if this will work but you want to cut on the v in the lower picture ______ \|--Lv-\| \|--C \|--A The LCA bushings or entire arm will have to be replaced as the bushing will be destroyed when you cut. You can buy aftermarket LCA's that are fancy colors and have urathane bushings or you can also probably pickup a junkyard LCA pretty cheap and even get some new bolts if you get lucky and their not seized. I bought a new LCA bolt at my local dealership for a few bucks and replaced my bushings with Energy Suspension ones. While your out shopping, pickup a tube of antiseize and coat the shaft of all your suspension bolts when you re-attach them and you won't have this problem again. Just remember, if you cut the LCA bolt and bushing, leave yourself something to grab to turn that bolt out. __________________ Andy - Reinstated Hybrid Forum Moderator '06 Subaru Legacy Spec B - Stock, for now '98 Civic EX - CTR headlights and grill, Kosei K1's, for sale '90 240SX - SR20DET that will never get installed, project car.

06-13-05, 12:44 AM	#20
oscar_425 Got V-TEC?? Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 798	I know how you're feeling bro.. I've been in the same situation twice... I got depressed and wanting to hit the car... thanks god I live a block away from a muffler shop __________________ <<<PICS OF MY CAR>>> ___________ q/. ...... :snoopy: .\p /\|____________\|\ [\|___\==H==/___\|] [...-------------...] \|\|\|\|________\|\|\|\| *FOR SALE* http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/oscar_....net/my_photos

06-13-05, 09:09 AM	#21
eonsx311 today is not my birthday. Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 3,035	update. i have a mechanic that lives a door down from my house and he is going to try to fix it. i have to work all week so i dont have time to deal with this. too bad really, if i had 4-6 hours to mess with it i could most likely get the job done. its my last resort at this point. the mechanic thinks he can save the LCA by cutting off the welded bolt and just replacing it with a fresh one. so we will see. ill keep you all updated.

06-13-05, 10:05 AM	#23
Jafro I'm made of meat! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,484	There's actualy a metal sleeve in that bushing. The bolt seizes inside the sleeve as Andy mentioned. If you heat it up, the rubber may melt, and the sleeve can come loose in the bushing. That still won't help you because the sleeve will still be rusted to the bolt on the other side of the hole. Don't beat yourself up over it. It's actually a really common problem on higher mileage cars or older cars. __________________ Jafro My 1995 Eclipse GSX (pictures) - 12.20 ET - 12.42 ET - 12.47 ET vs. Z06 Corvette - 324awhp 1991 Dodge Colt GL (pictures) - Colt chassis - engine donor - AWD trans donor - 4g63t tear-down - 4g63t reconditioning - 4g63t longblock assembly 1999 Ford F-150

06-13-05, 10:09 AM	#24
eonsx311 today is not my birthday. Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 3,035	yeah, im not beating myself up that much, but the mechanic who is fixing it is i bet. the worst thing about it all is that i thought i was home free. on the last damn bolt that had to be removed, i have a problem. what are the chances ya know? and jafro, i agree, more cowbell.

06-13-05, 10:29 AM	#25
Jafro I'm made of meat! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,484	If the bolt was turning before it snapped off in the sleeve, then you can probably tappity-tap and rotate the part in the threads out with a hammer and a punch once you get the rest of that stuff out of your way. That would save you a lot of drilling and tapping. That would greatly reducing the chances of destroying the threads. Better place an order with Honda for that bolt right now. You won't match it in a hardware store. When you get the new one, you'll see why it seized. It's got RIBS! __________________ Jafro My 1995 Eclipse GSX (pictures) - 12.20 ET - 12.42 ET - 12.47 ET vs. Z06 Corvette - 324awhp 1991 Dodge Colt GL (pictures) - Colt chassis - engine donor - AWD trans donor - 4g63t tear-down - 4g63t reconditioning - 4g63t longblock assembly 1999 Ford F-150

06-13-05, 10:50 AM	#26
eonsx311 today is not my birthday. Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 3,035	i know all about the ribs, got the right side off with persuasion, and noticed that it was bone dry. all that remained was a few rust stains and dried up lithium grease. its at the mechanic right now so ill call him and ask if i need to put the parts on order or if he has them readily available. i told him to leave the ridhe height be and not to touch the upper strut nut because i still have to finish adjusting the ride height and preloading the shocks. then i should be good to go. then its off to the alignment shop. how much does a 2 inch drop usualy throw off the toe?

06-13-05, 07:07 PM	#27
MPerson Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Eastern MA Posts: 4,703	Enough to get an alignment for sure. __________________ ('''\(CiviC)/''') Red Sox Nation MikeyMerse

06-15-05, 09:27 AM	#28
eonsx311 today is not my birthday. Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 3,035	update: got a new lower control arm from the junk yard but those bastards didnt remove it. they gave me the whole trailing arm, hub and brake assembley including the control arm. i almost snapped another bolt trying to get the control arm out again. should be back on the road tomorrow. then off to the alignment shop. soon the civic will live again.

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